Multiplayer?

For discussion about Trine, firstly released in 2009 for Windows and on PlayStation Network.
Geodew
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Re: Multiplayer?

Postby Geodew » Fri Jul 03, 2009 11:21 am

Unlike a bunch of guys on here, I'm going to explain this in a civil manner:

Two of my Steam friends and I were going to pre-order this game until we found out that the co-op is local only. Now, we will not, for sure. It's not worth $30 to me without online multiplayer. I came to post here on behalf of the three of us to voice our disappointment-- if you only patched it with multiplayer capabilities, even a direct connect kind of thing, we three would probably buy it. Is it really not worth your time to do this? I'm almost positive your time would have been well spent (making your customers happy AND profitability) developing multiplayer capabilities for this program, so it was hard for me to believe that you neglected to include this (what I think to be) key feature.

:(((((sadface of many frownings.

Sorry if my paragraph seems a little confusing, it was late when I wrote this :)

Artemiya
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Re: Multiplayer?

Postby Artemiya » Fri Jul 03, 2009 12:08 pm

I also wanted to have an online coop to play with friend,but even without it i am still going to buy it.

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Mr. ShadowStealer
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Re: Multiplayer?

Postby Mr. ShadowStealer » Fri Jul 03, 2009 3:28 pm

I pre-ordered it even it didn't have online coop. It's still enough great game for me to play on my own. :)
Not all of you have äää's and ööö's :P

Syrijon
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Re: Multiplayer?

Postby Syrijon » Fri Jul 03, 2009 4:21 pm

Geodew wrote:Is it really not worth your time to do this? I'm almost positive your time would have been well spent (making your customers happy AND profitability) developing multiplayer capabilities for this program, so it was hard for me to believe that you neglected to include this (what I think to be) key feature.

You can be very sure that the time wouldn't have been well spent, as otherwise they would have done it. From what the developers said multiple times, there were only two options:
1) Make Trine a mediocre game with online coop
2) Make Trine a wonderful game without online coop
Now, pick what you'd prefer ;) Frozenbyte chose the second, and I'm glad they did. Especially now there still is the possibility of online coop being added later on. Surely, though, this is not something you should expect right now. But, I guess hoping wouldn't be wrong :)

Geodew
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Re: Multiplayer?

Postby Geodew » Sun Jul 05, 2009 9:05 am

Syrijon wrote:
Geodew wrote:Is it really not worth your time to do this? I'm almost positive your time would have been well spent (making your customers happy AND profitability) developing multiplayer capabilities for this program, so it was hard for me to believe that you neglected to include this (what I think to be) key feature.

You can be very sure that the time wouldn't have been well spent, as otherwise they would have done it. From what the developers said multiple times, there were only two options:
1) Make Trine a mediocre game with online coop
2) Make Trine a wonderful game without online coop
Now, pick what you'd prefer ;) Frozenbyte chose the second, and I'm glad they did. Especially now there still is the possibility of online coop being added later on. Surely, though, this is not something you should expect right now. But, I guess hoping wouldn't be wrong :)



Well, that's just what I'm confused about. Why does making a good game entail the lack of online co-op mode? Could they not take out a loan and use it to pay programmers to make online co-op? Is that not what gaming companies do when undertaking a big project? I know for a fact that they would have made at least $90 more from my friends and I, and I'm sure we're not the only ones who would buy only for that reason...

Lethal
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Re: Multiplayer?

Postby Lethal » Sun Jul 05, 2009 9:34 am

Ok, this is is a co op game but i would like to play it with my cousin but we don't have a game pad of any sort :evil: . Is there any way to play with 2 keyboards/mouse :?: or a mod of some sort that will do this. If not will there be a future support for multiple keyboards or not if so when?

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Mr. ShadowStealer
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Re: Multiplayer?

Postby Mr. ShadowStealer » Sun Jul 05, 2009 2:35 pm

Lethal. I think the very first patch for this game will allow having multiple keyboards and mice.

Geodew, the loan which they would have had to take wouldn't have been like 10 000€, quite small one actually, but it most likely would have been closer to 300 000€ or even more and FB team couldn't take that kind of huge risk.

But that's just my guessing why they didn't take a loan because I don't have any actual facts about the subject. I think they had to think about this a lot too and in my opinion they made the right decission. =) True, it would add replay value when you could play the game multiple times through with different friends with different solutions but at least they, and we, have a very good game on which they can rely on now and maybe after some time even make a total rewrite of the game engine to get the online coop.
Not all of you have äää's and ööö's :P

smnoamls
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Re: Multiplayer?

Postby smnoamls » Sun Aug 02, 2009 3:31 pm

I have to say I am quite dissapointed.

I reached this page when looking as to WHY my copy of trine has no multiplayer.(PC)
I saw the trailers, the coop ones to be specific and was hooked.
I saw the steam page (http://store.steampowered.com/app/35700/) and saw the coop sign.
Now call me Mr silly, but being a VERY long time steam user and online gamer, I kind of assumed a game like this will definately have an online multiplayer option.
For a pc to have a same house multiplayer is just a little weird.
My friends and I were so so stoked to be able to play online with each other, its just not funny.
Now I am sorry to say I had to recommend to them not to get it.
Dont get me wrong its a nice game , not bad at all. But the coop is what makes it pop.
Also , the developement costs for multiplayer is not nearly as high as stated here.
Steam graciously provides a huge framework for friend hooking, networking etc. Hooking up to it and creating a simple gui for 3 people is dead easy.
Synching 3 players is no where near as hard as synching 32 players in TF2 or 4 players with 300 zombies ALA l4d.
It's simple.
It can be easily done.
I feel , if not cheated, then a little robbed.

Noam

PS: I am a developer for IBM

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FB_Lauri
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Re: Multiplayer?

Postby FB_Lauri » Sun Aug 02, 2009 4:14 pm

I think we have even asked Steam to specify it's only local co-op, but I might be wrong. Nevertheless, we have to ask for it again.

Adding multiplayer would been 4-6 months of work, and we didn't have the money nor strength for that kind of stretch.

(I've edited the message later)

smnoamls
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Re: Multiplayer?

Postby smnoamls » Sun Aug 02, 2009 4:23 pm

I sincerely apologize for the PS: IBM dev thing.
It was never meant as a condescending thing, only as a mild preventative to people saying "You dont know what you are talking about" thing.
I appreciate your decision, but I really do feel a little cheated.
Offline coop for pc games stated as coop in steam is a little in the grey area.
A good friend of mine who is an editor in a pretty large gaming site ( i wont name it ) was a little shocked to discover it has no online multiplayer.
He nagged me for an hour to look for the option in the menu and in the end he just drove to my house to see for himself.

And to try and stray away from whine fest I dont want this to become, think about it this way:
Most pc players, as opposed to console players, expect Co-op to be networked. Their pc's are more often than not in a game room / work room, and their gaming connections are , if bought via steam,quite often in steam.
A formal online feature, maybe even a "sale" thing where a 3 copy package of trine can be bought for cheaper ( ALA L4D again ) can pull an immense following.
Its a good business decision.

PS: Seeing as I have the game I saw how polished it was. Its very polished. I seriously doubt adding a network module would be THAT hard for people on your caliber.

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FB_Lauri
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Re: Multiplayer?

Postby FB_Lauri » Sun Aug 02, 2009 4:43 pm

We understand what kind of frustration the lack on online features causes, and if I could change one thing from our past that definitely would be it. However, for Trine it was too late (Trine was made PS3 in mind, where online features also are major but not as critical as for PC). For our future products we are fixing this major issue.

smnoamls
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Re: Multiplayer?

Postby smnoamls » Sun Aug 02, 2009 4:44 pm

So, in a nutshell, shall I stop holding my breath for online coop in trine?

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FB_Lauri
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Re: Multiplayer?

Postby FB_Lauri » Sun Aug 02, 2009 5:01 pm

Never say never (ie. there is a small chance), but if I have something learned it's that I shouldn't make any promises at all :wink:

smnoamls
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Re: Multiplayer?

Postby smnoamls » Sun Aug 02, 2009 5:23 pm

*Sigh*

Make an effort will you man?
I live quite outside of town, and my wife nor cats are avid gamers. So far I will only get to play trine single player.
Ill buy another copy , wadda ya say.

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FB_Lauri
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Re: Multiplayer?

Postby FB_Lauri » Sun Aug 02, 2009 5:58 pm

I wish it would be only about us, but unfortunately there's so many parties involved and so many things to take into consideration .. :?

Nevertheless, I can say nothing will happen quickly, as it will in any case take that 4-6 months to do :)

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t1rrr0n
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Re: Multiplayer?

Postby t1rrr0n » Tue Aug 04, 2009 2:04 pm

if Trine will ever get online-multiplayer, than i think it just make sense with using team-speak or any other communication-system.
at least, Tine than should have a chat-feature.

anyway... i prefer Trine Coop at one computer. its awesome :)

DrTall
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Re: Multiplayer?

Postby DrTall » Thu Aug 06, 2009 11:07 pm

I don't mean to beat a dead horse here, but I found this wording on Steam to be very confusing:

Co-op mode for up to 3 players on the same system


The way I read it, "on the same system" was a disclaimer to make me aware I can't play the PC co-op with Playstation and XBox players. After reading that sentence, I bought the game expecting there to be online co-op with other PC users.

I admit it used to be a common question to ask if a multiplayer game was Internet enabled or was "hotseat" or "single computer" multiplayer. Nowadays, I rarely see PC games released with multiplayer that isn't online multiplayer. I really think you need to be more upfront about this, because I was very surprised to discover that Trine doesn't have online multiplayer after getting excited reading the quote above.

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Mr. ShadowStealer
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Re: Multiplayer?

Postby Mr. ShadowStealer » Fri Aug 07, 2009 8:02 pm

I agree the wording could have been "...on the same computer" or "...on a single computer."

BigWoopMagazine
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Re: Multiplayer?

Postby BigWoopMagazine » Wed Sep 16, 2009 11:40 pm

I'm a PS3 owner, and I for one am glad to see a great game coming our way with some friggin local multiplayer! For some odd reason the advent of broadband on a console has caused most developers to ignore the local multiplayer and only include internet multiplayer, and I find it incredibly irritating! I may be a huge nerd, but I still have real life friends who come over for some drinks, and its fun to play some games together. Don't get me wrong, on-line multiplayer is great, and I'd love to see it added in at some point, but I have so many online games its nice to have something like this. Apparently this releases on PSN tomorrow, it looks fantastic and I will be purchasing. Thanks a lot Frozenbyte!!

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FB_Lauri
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Re: Multiplayer?

Postby FB_Lauri » Thu Sep 17, 2009 12:00 am

Thanks and I hope you enjoy Trine!

Justice
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Re: Multiplayer?

Postby Justice » Fri Sep 18, 2009 11:12 pm

BigWoopMagazine wrote:I'm a PS3 owner, and I for one am glad to see a great game coming our way with some friggin local multiplayer! For some odd reason the advent of broadband on a console has caused most developers to ignore the local multiplayer and only include internet multiplayer, and I find it incredibly irritating! I may be a huge nerd, but I still have real life friends who come over for some drinks, and its fun to play some games together. Don't get me wrong, on-line multiplayer is great, and I'd love to see it added in at some point, but I have so many online games its nice to have something like this. Apparently this releases on PSN tomorrow, it looks fantastic and I will be purchasing. Thanks a lot Frozenbyte!!


ditto, even a relatively poor game can be enhanced with a few drinks and buddy by yourside to rag on while you play. Not all gamers are introverts and social rejects. It's great to finally have a game where friends can team up and work together on something as opposed to fragging or fighting or what have you.

Deathstroke
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Re: Multiplayer?

Postby Deathstroke » Sat Oct 24, 2009 7:05 pm

This may be a very, very stupid question, but here it is anyway.

According to this thread multiplayer is available. I have Trine for the PS3 and I can't figure out for the life of me how to enable it.

Any help would be most appreciated.

EDIT: Yeah, didn't even think about pressing the Start button. Got it all figured out. Think I'll exchange my brain for one that isn't so dead.

phar4oh
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Re: Multiplayer?

Postby phar4oh » Sat Feb 13, 2010 6:04 pm

DrTall wrote:I don't mean to beat a dead horse here, but I found this wording on Steam to be very confusing:

Co-op mode for up to 3 players on the same system


The way I read it, "on the same system" was a disclaimer to make me aware I can't play the PC co-op with Playstation and XBox players. After reading that sentence, I bought the game expecting there to be online co-op with other PC users.

I admit it used to be a common question to ask if a multiplayer game was Internet enabled or was "hotseat" or "single computer" multiplayer. Nowadays, I rarely see PC games released with multiplayer that isn't online multiplayer. I really think you need to be more upfront about this, because I was very surprised to discover that Trine doesn't have online multiplayer after getting excited reading the quote above.


The wording was a little confusing? No kidding. I purchased 2 copies so I could play with my wife. I never ONCE thought that it was only on the same PC. When the game Serious Sam came out 100 years ago on PC, it included multiplayer support on the same computer. I thought that was a "nice touch" but the meat and potatoes was the lan/online support. More like an after dinner mint. You say " ah, that's nice... and move on".
Ok, so you say "that's your own stupid fault for not double checking what trine's interpretation of coop/multiplayer/"same system" means... well, I actually played the demo and loved the game play but I didn't notice multiplayer options so I thought the multiplayer must be only available in the full version so I bought 2 copies! So now I have 1 stupid copy I don't need, and of course steam has an "F.Y." policy regarding refunds on digital download purchases. So...congratulations. I supported your game for a feature I assumed you had and bought an extra copy. To me, this is like an order taker at Burger King asking you if you want to upgrade your meal to "large" for 50 cents, then giving you a large tray to put your small burger and chips on.

Yes, it's a good game, but when I was sitting there thinking, should I buy it and support the devs? or should I creatively acquire it? I chose to support the devs thinking I'm doing the right thing, supporting the little guys. I know I'm beating a dead horse based on what the other posters have written, but gee.... If the multiplayer limitations were effectivly communicated I wouldn't feel so unpleasent (avoiding unhelpful profantiy here).

Protip: For Trine 2, list it as an MMORPG, but require all 10,000 people to fly to Finland and plug their keyboards directly into the server. You'll sell heaps more copies. (better order some usb hubs)

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FB_Lauri
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Re: Multiplayer?

Postby FB_Lauri » Sat Feb 13, 2010 11:56 pm

We are sorry for the confusion, neither we are happy with the wordig Steam has in the product description. Please contact Joel (@frozenbyte.com) to see if we can arrange the situation with the extra copy.

With the remaining one I hope you can still enjoy it with your wife with either two keyboards and two mice, or with any gamepad if you have any (I'd recommend the Xbox 360 controller as we have default settings for that)

phar4oh
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Re: Multiplayer?

Postby phar4oh » Sun Feb 14, 2010 6:43 am

Thanks Laura. I don't know who is responsible for the wording for the game page info (I assume valve), but I feel valve are the ones who have done the bait and switch, and then a copy and paste job of "Section 4 of the Steam Subscriber Agreement" as their reply to me when I inquired about a refund. I don't feel it's your responsibility to reconcile refunds to balance valve's anti customer policy.

TBH, I didn't come to your forums to let off steam ( 8) ), but rather to see if someone had done any hacks or 3rd party mods to "make it happen"... but I was interested to notice I'm not the only one caught out by the wording :roll:


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