Saved game

For discussion about Trine, firstly released in 2009 for Windows and on PlayStation Network.
AlCool
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2009 5:36 am

Re: Saved game

Postby AlCool » Fri Jul 24, 2009 7:03 pm

I'm seriously wondering what game you guys are playing. Trine's tutorial and first level, counting finding all the experience and treasure, took me all of 20 minutes with 3 other people, the very first run through. If it's taking you over an hour and a half your not doing it right. There is no need to have a save system that lets you start at checkpoints on the maps, because the maps aren't THAT big. The largest map takes maybe 30 minutes to beat (45 if you like treasure and are playing with 3 people). If you have to stop playing there IS the option of pausing the game and minimizing or just leaving it until you are back.

Honestly, is this what we want to waste the devs time doing?

newOne
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:16 pm

Re: Saved game

Postby newOne » Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:05 pm

I agree with with ahcool about devs not wasting their time and energy on save system.
Checkpoints do their job if all characters dies...and..most levels can be done really fast, unless you want to fight bats and skeletons with wizard only :) - that might take some time or even imposible( in some situations )

Vestin
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2009 8:43 pm

Re: Saved game

Postby Vestin » Wed Jul 29, 2009 2:11 am

Helmutcheese wrote:Your a LAMER TBH.

That's a nice claim. Back it up with some proof and I might just believe you.
Helmutcheese wrote:You do not make any sense period

It's rather ironical that you claim it's *me* who's not making any sense, while at the same time you provide no explanation for your views and resort to simplistic insults. They are neither aimed well nor pack the punch. You're flinging at the air, wildly. If you keep that up - you'll soon be gasping for breath and seeing that there was no one there.
Helmutcheese wrote:and try to sound clever

You don't put "and" after a "period".
Also - I don't simply try - I *DO* sound clever.
Helmutcheese wrote:(...)but your a n00b(...)

See: "flinging at the air".
Also - you might want to think a while before trying to insult people. If you haven't noticed the difference between evaluation of ideas and insults - keep in mind that the latter are pointed at a person, while the former at things many people may think/do/etc. Ponder that for a moment.
Helmutcheese wrote:(...)who cannot accept other peoples opinions and expect them to accept yours.

Are you having trouble accepting my *opinions* on the opinions of others ? That would seem self-contradictory. Not quite an uncommon mistake, but still - you might want to rethink it.
Helmutcheese wrote:You will not go through life smoothly with that attitude.

You seem to make two presumptions here. One is that you know exactly what types of attitudes result in certain ways of going through life. The other is the (less obvious) implicit thought that people ought to live "the easy way" and smoothness is something valuable. I believe that you're wrong in both cases but you might need some Philosophy 101 to figure that out.
To make it short and understandable: don't tell me how to live my life. It doesn't sound like your area of expertise, while it certainly seems to be mine.

Helmutcheese wrote:Having Saves as many asked for would not make any difference to users who don't want/need them.

Wrong. It's a waste of developer-hours that could be spent doing more important stuff. And even if there were no other bugs to remove and features to add - I'd still consider it a waist of time. As people have pointed out - it's too much effort for too few gains.
It's like asking for saves-on-demand in replace. If you can't get through the whole thing at once - perhaps you shouldn't start at all. Also - it simply feels wrong to call for a time out in the middle of the thing. The whole vibe evaporates too fast (the analogy is a lot broader, but let's stop here).
It is a short game.
It has short levels.
Take it or leave it.

Helmutcheese
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 1:36 am

Re: Saved game

Postby Helmutcheese » Wed Jul 29, 2009 5:07 am

Already proved it, you came back to talk more BS.

WTF has it got to do with you if the DEV's take time to add Saves or not ?

Your obv a sad no lifer kiddie who lives with parents and can sit gaming all day,, some of us cannot.

Your on ignore so do not waste your time posting more BS as I will not see it.

Vestin
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2009 8:43 pm

Re: Saved game

Postby Vestin » Wed Jul 29, 2009 10:50 pm

Helmutcheese wrote:WTF has it got to do with you if the DEV's take time to add Saves or not ?

As a rule of thumb - people should think whether the effort put into something might give results worth it.
In this case - the effort would be quite large and the benefits far too few. Like many people said - the levels are short. As was mentioned how you can easily rush through the explored parts of a level once you know how to get further. AS was said how it is hard to believe that a person has less than a few minutes to play (while the levels take the said few minutes to complete).
Helmutcheese wrote:Your obv a sad no lifer kiddie who lives with parents and can sit gaming all day,, some of us cannot.

My obv ;) ? I know - you probably don't want to "sound clever"...
It's hilarious to think how content you seem with labeling me in a certain way, while probably not even bothering to read the entirety of my posts.
Let's use a little psychology here... People who are eager to insult others often act as such because of their own insecurities, which they wish to cloud with images of how someone else is a total failure. These images, however, usually utilize the "sour grapes" model. In this case - you probably fear that you are not a good gamer and wish to destroy this insecurity by claiming that people who are good gamers deserve scorn and are most likely ridden with negative traits.
As people like to speak about particular things - you also claim that I am a good and dedicated gamer, which information you have no way to verify.

What's really fascinating is that it would seem that everyone with sufficient talent is prone to be said to have "no life". People implicitly agree that the only way to "have a life" is not to be particularly good at anything. I find that hilarious.

Helmutcheese wrote:Your on ignore so do not waste your time posting more BS as I will not see it.

A type of "Lalala, I don't hear you !" behavior, I guess. Regardless - don't worry. I'm not posting because I care you are going to read it. I'm doing so for my own amusement.
If I really cared about you that much, I would probably be mad that you called me a n00b, a no-life that plays games all the time (it's a nice combo, BTW; I chuckle a bit, imagining a guy who spends his entire life doing something, while not improving his skills whatsoever..), what I say "BS"... Although, to be honest - it's hard to take someone who writes "Your obv" serious.

Tokara
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 12:42 am

Re: Saved game

Postby Tokara » Mon Nov 02, 2009 1:10 am

I fully agree with mosh, I came to this forum exactly because of the same issue, it is very frustrating for me and a fun killer having to start a level from the very beginning. I'm not a jump'n'run player at all, and only a casual player too, so it takes more time and effort than many more experienced people might be able to imagine. There are surely huge differences regarding the players' skills, so it's important that the game stays fun for the more unexperienced too. I really do hope that a patch will add a more precise saving function. At this point, I don't feel like buying the full version since I won't probably have the motivation to keep it up, even though the game has made a wonderful first impression.

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Kein
Posts: 169
Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2009 5:34 pm
Location: Soviet Empire
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Re: Saved game

Postby Kein » Sun Nov 08, 2009 5:05 pm

C'mon, the game isn't so hard :P

truth_sayer
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2009 4:52 am

Re: Saved game

Postby truth_sayer » Tue Dec 15, 2009 5:36 am

I just want to say two things:

First, definitely SirDrago and Vestin are a pair of morons. :mrgreen: . If SirDrago has played with a C-64 I guess he should have 25+ years old... but with the intelligence of a kid. Vestin I imagine has a similar problem.

Second, on the following:
At the moment a level can only be loaded from the beginning. We had planned a proper saving system with the checkpoints but it got a bit too complicated in many ways, and we decided to save a couple of weeks of development time and cut it. That's the truth.

Please, a couple of extra weeks of development on a game I think is very cool in my opinion is not so much considering the time I guess you have spent answering questions of frustrated players looking for a game manual explaining how to save their game or what happened that they were on a checkpoint and when they started the game again they found themselves at the start of a level or at the start of the game if they were still on the first level, or the time so many players have spent figuring out what the heck happened to their "saved game" on the last checkpoint. I did not even found documentation in the game explaining that, which at least could have helped the players to know that they should finish a level before quitting the game. You know, fb_joel, I appreciate your sincerity, but the truth is that most of the people are not like the pair of morons I mentioned above, and also, even though sometimes things may take an extra effort, that can make a significant difference at the end. Is not good to have upset or frustrated players that think checkpoints save their games (because checkpoints usually do that in most games) to find after some forum searching that the developers did not take the time to do that because it was "a bit too complicated in many ways", and did not even produced a game manual (or at least readme.txt file) explaining that.

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fb_joel
Site Admin
Posts: 2482
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 2:14 pm
Location: Finland

Re: Saved game

Postby fb_joel » Tue Dec 15, 2009 4:48 pm

Yes we could have handled the situation a little better by explaining it somewhere. The manual and all such "extra" things were done in great hurry (actually I think some versions of the manual have a mention of the save system, but might not be in the first ones).

I'm going to explain this a bit further: Game development rarely goes to plan, and a couple of weeks for one task is a HUGE task compared to many others. Things like this are also rather important to do properly, so they have to be made by the best programmers, and that means that it's a battle against other really important features. It's also not just a couple of weeks worth of money etc, it's about finishing the game before the deadline hits. And we definitely had a deadline, which we were able to extend a couple of times, but it was not enough to include checkpoint saves. (All the PS3 delays did _not_ add any more time to the schedule and we did not develop any new features during this time because that's not what quality assurance phase is for, just in case you're wondering.)

My memory is a bit fuzzy on what exactly went down when that decision was made, but in all honesty we don't really regret it too much. It was the right call at the time - in the future we just need to make sure we don't get into situations where we need to make that kind of decisions, because obviously it would be better if the checkpoints saved progress. Here's hoping this is possible! :)
// Joel, Frozenbyte team

truth_sayer
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2009 4:52 am

Re: Saved game

Postby truth_sayer » Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:08 am

Thanks!


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