Level editor: speculations, rumours and information

For discussion about Trine, firstly released in 2009 for Windows and on PlayStation Network.
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fb_joel
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Re: Level editor: speculations, rumours and information

Postby fb_joel » Mon Aug 16, 2010 5:56 pm

That's a great article. ;) Personally I believe the truth lies somewhere in the middle - any level editor needs to be reasonably simple to use (and to get your own stuff running) in order to attract a big community, but it's also true that you don't really want to have a gazillion crappy maps floating around (however I don't know if the right way to address that is by making the editor tools complex for complexity's sake, heh).
// Joel, Frozenbyte team

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Kein
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Re: Level editor: speculations, rumours and information

Postby Kein » Tue Sep 21, 2010 11:18 am

http://hpl2.frictionalgames.com/tools

Just few days after since the release, this game got Level Editor. Note: it's budget not really differs so much from Trine's one!
:<

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fb_joel
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Re: Level editor: speculations, rumours and information

Postby fb_joel » Tue Sep 21, 2010 1:44 pm

Yeah, it'll be interesting to see what comes out of that. They seem to have put a lot of effort into the documentation as well.

On the second note, have Frictional Games communicated how much Amnesia cost to make? I think they're 5 guys or so (no idea if they used a lot of outsourcing). Trine cost 1M USD to make so that's a bit different (and we're 30 people right now, although only 16 and upwards worked on Trine). Of course, I'm not sure if that information actually helps our level editor contemplations as it makes it look like we'd have the resources to do e.g. documentation, but that's not really the case in our day-to-day operations (i.e. there's only a couple of people who have that kind of knowledge of the editor and they are much needed in other projects).

I'm not sure if I've explained this before but our level editor is rather complicated to use, and in addition to that, the whole "system" is a rather big mess. The scripts are based on the same tech we used in our 2002-2003 RTS demo and later in Shadowgrounds (2005), and it's full of temporary hacks. Hack upon hack. What this means is that whenever a user encounters a problem, they'd need to come here and ask for help. Then it'd be read either by me or Lauri, and neither of us know enough about the editor or the scripts to be able to help, so we'd need to go ask the coders or the artists, and usually the solutions are not quite so simple (i.e. they'd require manual debugging/testing and/or new code solutions). It is very unlikely that a community of users who would be able to help each other would be born, because it takes a lot of time to become so accustomed to the editor and scripts, and it's already been over a year since the release of the game and the amount of daily players is quite low - thus most modders would work in isolation and at different times (i.e. someone might pick it up next week and work on a level for a couple of weeks and then stop, and another one might pick it up next month and so on - they wouldn't work on it at the same time, and thus the chances of a community are less). Of course, a great launch of the editor might get a few dozen people working on something at launch time, but it would soon die if we couldn't support it properly and make it easy to get levels into the game.

I might be a little pessimistic on this due to the failure of e.g. SG and SGS editors (even if there are clear reasons why they failed, some of which would be 'better' with Trine) but I can't help it.

The right way to do a level editor launch is to release it either at release, or within a couple of weeks of release like in the case of Amnesia. It gets a lot harder later on...
// Joel, Frozenbyte team

kostasmpyras
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Re: Level editor: speculations, rumours and information

Postby kostasmpyras » Sat Jan 08, 2011 1:30 am

EDITOR IN TRINE>>?? omg!!!! I ve been spenting more hours in editors than in games since i started playing ( Age of Mythology, Heroes of Might And Magic and especially Warcraft III ) So if the editor were released i would be more happy than Brad Pitt when he married Jolie!!!

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Re: Level editor: speculations, rumours and information

Postby camillus » Wed Sep 28, 2011 7:07 pm

fb_joel wrote:Trine cost 1M USD to make


Trine 1 costed only 1M USD... or are you talking about Trine 2?

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Re: Level editor: speculations, rumours and information

Postby FB_Lauri » Wed Sep 28, 2011 7:41 pm

camillus wrote:
fb_joel wrote:Trine cost 1M USD to make


Trine 1 costed only 1M USD... or are you talking about Trine 2?


Trine 1 was a bit over 1M USD, Trine 2 is clocking roughly 3 times that 8)

(I hope players will notice that in quality also!)

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Re: Level editor: speculations, rumours and information

Postby NeatNit » Thu Oct 06, 2011 11:46 pm

You can get higher quality than Trine? :shock:

I wanted to ask about the editor... I didn't buy the Frozenbyte bundle back when it was sold because I already had all 3 games, and I figured I'd get Splot when it's out. I also didn't really follow any news about Trine... Bla bla bla.

Only now, looking at the new humble's downloads page, I see an Editor download. So I'm like "what the heck, there's an Editor for Trine?" and off to Google. All Google brings is a bounch of uninformative gaming website articles and this very thread, which doesn't even mention the released editor. Since the forum doesn't allow to search for the word Editor because it's too common, and this is the only thread I see about an editor in the first page of threads... Well, I am forced to ask here.

Is the editor available from any place other than the Bundle? Will maps created with it work on any version of Trine (Steam) or just the one downloadable from the bundle? Is there any place where I can find user-created maps currently (some sub-forum I'm missing, perhaps)?


Completely unrelated Trine 2 question that I don't feel like looking for the proper place to ask it in: Will Trine 2 offer native LAN support? (ie not one you have to jump through hoops for (note: these steps 1-4 must also be done when using two seperate accounts, just not a-b)) I'm not talking about buying once and using the same copy, I'm talking about two players who each bought the game.

Sorry if that one was asked before, I estimate about a bagillion times. :roll:

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fb_joel
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Re: Level editor: speculations, rumours and information

Postby fb_joel » Fri Oct 07, 2011 7:56 pm

It's exclusive to the bundle currently, and it has some serious issues (which is the reason we haven't released it properly). You can load the levels and change the objects' positions and such I think, but you cannot modify any of the AI stuff or actual scripts, or add new objects, which affects everything quite a bit and means that you can't create new levels with it, only modify existing ones. We meant to fix it but never had the time to do so... So the only thing it's good for right now is just looking at how the levels were made and maybe messing around for a few minutes. Sorry. :(

Trine 2 at release will most likely not have LAN support. This is something we may add later on though, depending on a few things, but for launch we are solely focusing on online multiplayer through Steam.
// Joel, Frozenbyte team

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Re: Level editor: speculations, rumours and information

Postby NeatNit » Sat Oct 08, 2011 12:31 am

fb_joel wrote:It's exclusive to the bundle currently, and it has some serious issues (which is the reason we haven't released it properly). You can load the levels and change the objects' positions and such I think, but you cannot modify any of the AI stuff or actual scripts, or add new objects, which affects everything quite a bit and means that you can't create new levels with it, only modify existing ones. We meant to fix it but never had the time to do so... So the only thing it's good for right now is just looking at how the levels were made and maybe messing around for a few minutes. Sorry. :(
That is understandable, and what I began to suspect after downloading and reading the readme. I understand it must be a lot of work to get this thing working, so no pressure :)

fb_joel wrote:Trine 2 at release will most likely not have LAN support. This is something we may add later on though, depending on a few things, but for launch we are solely focusing on online multiplayer through Steam.
Hmm... Steamworks-only multiplayer? Yeah, I guess it could work. It wouldn't work very well over LAN, though. At least tell me there will still be same PC multiplayer like in Trine!
<unrelated story>
See, when I first got Trine (I don't even remember how) I stopped playing very fast because I was playing alone. I've tried playing with a few people, but they just weren't fun. And then one day, there I was, in the Robotics computer lab in school with a friend who begged me to play Garry's Mod with him (hooray for having a room in school with surprisingly strong computers which you can do anything you want with just because you're in the robotics team! :D). And I told him "Let's try something else". Honestly, I didn't think he'd like it. For some reason every time I try to introduce someone to anything, it doesn't work. And then came the best surprise in the world: we were both addicted :)
</unrelated story> (sorta)
We finished the game together, and for a short while a third friend joined us as the Knight. For Trine 2 I already told them both that we're doing Trine 2 together, because the game is 10 times more fun when you never switch characters.

So please, don't make some stupid mistake not allowing us to play this together!

(Oh, and don't mess up with the menus again that only P1 can use and if the other players try to use everything fucks up)



Sorry for completely derailing this thread, but it's not going anywhere is it? :)

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fb_joel
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Re: Level editor: speculations, rumours and information

Postby fb_joel » Sat Oct 08, 2011 7:44 pm

Yeah it's alright. :)

Trine 2 will definitely have local ("couch") co-op as well, which is in my opinion the best way to enjoy the game as you seem to agree 8) , and in fact it will be easier to use too. And will also have a bit more replayability in the form of a feature that we haven't announced yet... So it should be good. :)
// Joel, Frozenbyte team

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Re: Level editor: speculations, rumours and information

Postby T-Bottch » Sat Mar 10, 2012 11:42 am

Just checking in. Still anxiously hoping to start a mod/remake of Donkey Kong Country. Your engine is gorgeous and would be the perfect way to revive that franchise. Nintendo's cartoony "Returns" was a travesty (no occluding snow or rain level? are you kidding me?). Please Frozenbyte, take another look at adding mod support. The tools may be difficult to use for some but there will always be those who figure them out and get things rolling. 2.5D platformers are the best and yours is the prettiest.
Tim

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Re: Level editor: speculations, rumours and information

Postby wellspokenman » Mon Jul 07, 2014 12:08 pm

bumpadee bump.

PS plus has no doubt added a whole lot of active players - is it enough to reconsider on the level editor thing?

Love the DKC idea - this looks like what Rare would have really wanted to do all those years ago. My dream, however, is to see Earthworm Jim on this engine.

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Re: Level editor: speculations, rumours and information

Postby Amran » Fri Jul 25, 2014 4:03 am

I'd just like to pipe up and say that I'd love to see an editor released as well. Sounds like there was a version available at one time but sadly missed it. (Steam purchaser here)

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Re: Level editor: speculations, rumours and information

Postby fb_kai » Thu Sep 25, 2014 10:05 am

Your wishes have now come true :) We've released a BETA version of the Frozenbyte Editor for Trine (Enchanted Edition) and for Trine 2. If you have either game on Steam, you can get access to the editor now.

More info:
http://www.frozenbyte.com/2014/09/frozenbyte-editor-beta-release-for-trine-and-trine-2/

Instructions on how to enable the BETA Editors on Steam:
http://frozenbyte.com/wiki/index.php/How_to_install_the_Frozenbyte_editor_BETA

The Editor is quite difficult to use and we have very little documentation so far, but hopefully the Wiki page will get additional info over time. We've made it open to anyone who registers, so everyone can contribute.


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