Suggestions

For discussion about Trine 2, released in December 2011 on Windows, Mac, Xbox, PlayStation Network and later on Linux and Wii U.
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fb_joel
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Re: Suggestions

Postby fb_joel » Fri Apr 01, 2011 7:02 pm

Emil12345558 wrote:What I mean is that it is a waste of time to load the next level if you're not going to play it, f.ex. if you want to play the same level again, an earlier level, or wants to quit and do something else.

Ah, okay. I understand where you're coming but we will keep this the same as in the first Trine. We feel it fits a story-driven game like Trine 2 better, and hopefully the good savepoint system (quit at any point and the progress is saved) also helps a bit in this regard.

(Trine 1 has some loading screen "flicker"/flash that is visible for a few milliseconds at the start, which annoys me personally a lot, so I thought you might've referred to that. :) )

Gregzolka, those are some good suggestions as well. Many of those will be improved in Trine 2. Same (English) voice cast is confirmed, and as another small detail, I think you will be very pleased with the swimming... :)
// Joel, Frozenbyte team

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Gzegzolka
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Re: Suggestions

Postby Gzegzolka » Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:48 pm

I'm must say that I'm in opposition to what Emil12345558 wrote, I like idea of starting next level after finishing previous one. If game ask me every time do I want to play next level or quit game I will feel like an idiot. I buy game, I want to play it, I want to follow plot and what I have? question about selecting next level or quit, for me it is obvious that story should go on and narrator should continue story. I understood that some people do not have so much time to play games as I have or have kids and try to monitor how much time they spend at the computer (there are other tools in Windows to do it).

I have played Trine on Intel and gforce graphic cards and I didn't noticed that flash effect.

Malidictus
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Re: Suggestions

Postby Malidictus » Sat Apr 02, 2011 7:54 pm

Being able to quit between levels gets brought up because that's a natural break point for people. When it's time for dinner or bed or work or what have you, people will rarely drop what they're doing and quit their game on the spot. Even in a game that auto-saves progress and can be continued from the exact same place, people will usually want to reach some sort of milestone before they leave. It gives a sense of achievement, and it forms a natural point where one has to consider "Do I have time to play another level, or should I leave that for later/tomorrow/after dinner?

If achievements or stats are implemented into Trine 2, that would be a good place to put such an option. Have a stat screen which tells you how long you took to complete the level, how many enemies you killed, how much damage you sustained, how much treasure you picked up and so on. On this screen, leave three buttons: "Replay," "Quit to Menu" and "Continue." This doesn't have to be phrased as a question of "Are you sure you want to play this game?" It can be put as an option on a menu where the game naturally pauses to let you examine the contents of said menu. Such a menu would need a "Continue" button, so it only makes sense to add one to quit to it, as well.

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Gzegzolka
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Re: Suggestions

Postby Gzegzolka » Sun Apr 03, 2011 12:20 am

Statistics could be good thing in Trine, but I'm not sure are they so much important to show them after player finish level (maybe if Trine was more arcade type). I play games for simple joy of playing them, to admire level design and to try to enter every place, not for become master in fast beating game or hunting all achievements. I like loading screen from first Trine, that one with map showing progress and narrator story, in my humble opinion it fits perfect this game. I like narrator voice very much and it will be hard for me to accept his absence. Putting there ability to hit ESC key and back to main menu will be enough if You do not want to start next level. Statistics also can be accessible from ESC menu, try to think about something like level select from first game but with more information You mentioned.

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fb_joel
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Re: Suggestions

Postby fb_joel » Sun Apr 03, 2011 4:56 pm

Yeah there are pros and cons to each approach. There may be a bit more statistics in Trine 2, although we probably don't want to display those by default/during the normal course of the game, but perhaps in a menu.

And it's possible that we'll add a "Quit" or similar button to the loading screen, because it is indeed a good "break point". I was thinking more of a question earlier, which would break the flow of the story, but as a simple loading screen option it would of course fit perfectly. We will have to see how it turns out eventually. :)
// Joel, Frozenbyte team

ZachCraft
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Re: Suggestions

Postby ZachCraft » Mon Apr 04, 2011 3:34 am

I'm definitely with Gzeg on this one. Trine's a very immersive game, and I'd much prefer if it just went in a nice straight line, with no interruptions in between levels. I'm sure it doesn't take that long for the level to load and quit from there, as even when I was playing on my GeForce 6600, the levels loaded really quickly.

Malidictus
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Re: Suggestions

Postby Malidictus » Mon Apr 04, 2011 1:45 pm

For me, it was never a question of loading time, but rather a question of interruption. I love listening to the narrator, even when I know what he has to say, and I REALLY liked the voice actors for the three characters. But here's how a typical "quit between levels" scenario would typically go:

Narrator starts talking over the loading screen. Loading finishes and I interrupt him mid sentence. Bad. Then the level starts and characters start bantering. I interrupt them mid-sentence. Bad.

To my eyes, part of a game's flow must be the presence of break points where I can quit and resume seamlessly, without feeling like I'm skipping dialogue or that I'm being sent back or that I am, in effect, hitting Alt+F4 to cheat-quit the game. I'm of the firm belief that every time a game reaches a "major save point," it needs to offer the player the option to quit and return to that save point. Then and there. Not in a minute, not after a cutscene. Then and there. It is very important that the quit spot happen right on the break point, because this allows the game to be seamless even between play sessions, rather than making quitting it feel forced and out-of-character.

Quandrastorm
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Re: Suggestions

Postby Quandrastorm » Wed May 11, 2011 11:19 pm

here is a suggestion i have, add some more magic :o

like a forst arrow for the thief instead of a fire arrow. to slow enemy movement and attack speed.
and let the wizzard summen a spike that will fall down and crush his enemy's so he can be used in combat aswel.

and an other thing that would be cool is item sets, like if you put 3 items on the same charecter it gives an extra bunes

phalene
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Re: Suggestions

Postby phalene » Tue Jun 21, 2011 7:37 pm

It's probably too late but you could make an option to display hub only when something actually changes:
You could make a time counter for the hub: each time something happen (like taking damage, using power, etc.), the hub displays for 5 seconds, then it fades away. if the conter is active and something happens in that time, it gain 2/3 additional seconds, etc.
In boss zones, it activate itself for the duration of the fight.

you could then add a key to add manually 5 seconds to the counter in case the player needs informations. That way, it's impossible for the player to makes the hub disappear accidentally since the key only DISPLAY the hub.
Sorry for my bad english!

Saturn2888
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Re: Suggestions

Postby Saturn2888 » Thu Jun 23, 2011 7:44 am

Is surround gaming supported? I've been doing this more and more these days and have actually tried it on and off for the last 3-4 years now. Until I finally figured out how to get it working with non-same display resolutions, it wasn't working. So my question is, am I able to do something like this without the 2D image stretching of the previous game?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XmRdtnDhVE

To note, my monitors on the sides are the same resolution but not my center one. I think this is how some others have theirs as well. It's a bit much to have three 26" 1920x1200 displays for normal desktop usage and gaming, but having a couple 1024x1280 displays on the sides seems like it'd be more common and natural. If anything, there are a few solutions you could try testing with such as SoftTH. I do not use Eyefinity even though my card supports it specifically because it's gotta be the cheapest multi-monitor implementation. It requires all monitors to be exactly the same resolution, something I feel is highly uncommon from what I've seen.

Thanks!

Zybex
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Re: Suggestions

Postby Zybex » Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:50 am

to the Frozenbyte guys:
Will there be? Oh, will there be?
The next TRINE, or simply - Three?

If you haven't started yet,
There's a chance for you to get
Good ideas from the fans
(Not the stupid "just add guns!")

Many of us are old pricks
Who played games from floppy disks
Many of us still play those
Like, let say - Rick Dangerous

to the fans of Trine that love Amiga:
If an idea pops up
Write it down and wrap it up
Send it to the Frozenbyte
They will use it! - If it's right
All amiga fans unite !


Just wanted to say that there is still A LOT good stuff in the Amiga classics, that not only would please us - oldschool gamers, but also it would rise the gameplay/graphics quality for everyone else.
I don't see any other developer that makes games with the "Amiga magic" inside, besides Frozenbyte. It's great to be able to spot here and there something, and say "It's obviously inspired by the old Amiga games :) ".
I personally loved it, and I thought people that use 16bit computer emulators or even switching on the real hardware - from time to time - could use a pen when noticed something worth including into modern games - like Trine 3. :)

Let me start - Anyone remember this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xegb1IZ0Tdc#t=14m40s

Such flying level would perfectly fit, I think, even as a short break from the normal levels. And the bird - it looks so majestic. It would certainly help creating the right fantasy atmosphere.

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Gzegzolka
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Re: Suggestions

Postby Gzegzolka » Fri Jun 24, 2011 6:41 pm

Nice poem :) , but as Amiga user I do not use floppy disks for ages, now we use WHDload for running games under Workbench, it's easy and eliminate all that disk changing.
That game from link got replace music, but Agony is more replace in state of art meaning http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pIG15MX ... h_response
I just want to Trine 2 be just like Trine 1, not evolution, not revolution, just old good 2d-3d game with all stuff from original + new ones. I do not think that new Trine need shump sections, it could be nice to see them (if You love shumps), but for rest players it could be annoying.

Saturn2888
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Re: Suggestions

Postby Saturn2888 » Fri Jun 24, 2011 11:13 pm

...................
Last edited by Saturn2888 on Sat Jun 25, 2011 8:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Gzegzolka
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Re: Suggestions

Postby Gzegzolka » Sat Jun 25, 2011 11:28 am

When I was saying about "no revolution" and "no evolution" I was thinking about games like Mass Effect and Mass Effect3 where game was first rpg and than become Gears of War action clone. I'm talking about radical change that eliminate things that was good in first one (and make it unique game) just to make game more casual so more people, more lazy people who do not read books and do not understood sophisticated humor or problems will buy it (think about DukeNukem3d and DukeNukem Forever).
For example there are great sequels that put new elements into games and keep awesome level of original one like Portal and Portal2, or like Half-Life and Half-Life2. I'm sure there is nothing bad in putting into Trine2 new gameplay mechanics, new kind of puzzles and improve old ones.

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fb_joel
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Re: Suggestions

Postby fb_joel » Mon Jun 27, 2011 4:03 pm

phalene wrote:It's probably too late but you could make an option to display hub only when something actually changes.

I can confirm that we will have a menu option for the ingame user interface (always enabled or 5 seconds "flash" for any action).

Saturn2888 wrote:Is surround gaming supported? I've been doing this more and more these days and have actually tried it on and off for the last 3-4 years now. Until I finally figured out how to get it working with non-same display resolutions, it wasn't working. So my question is, am I able to do something like this without the 2D image stretching of the previous game? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XmRdtnDhVE

An excellent question and a very cool video. :) I do not have an answer for this - it has not been a major design/schedule consideration for us, to be honest. However, Trine 2 is built on a new game engine, and I imagine it will quite easily support something like this. The user interface will hopefully not stretch in the same way as Trine 1, although I think that we have made some compromises in some menu items to speed up the development... So it remains to be seen. We'll try to test this before release but honestly we may not have time to properly test or implement any support for release time. Perhaps in a patch later.

Very nice poem and some good thoughts, Zybex. :)

We are indeed trying to keep Trine 2 truthful to the original and keep all the good elements while adding a few new ones. It's not too long now until you guys get to voice your opinion on how well we succeeded. I look forward to hearing your thoughts especially, Gzegzolka. :)
// Joel, Frozenbyte team

Saturn2888
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Re: Suggestions

Postby Saturn2888 » Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:51 am

Gzegzolka wrote:When I was saying about "no revolution" and "no evolution" I was thinking about games like Mass Effect and Mass Effect3 where game was first rpg and than become Gears of War action clone. I'm talking about radical change that eliminate things that was good in first one (and make it unique game) just to make game more casual so more people, more lazy people who do not read books and do not understood sophisticated humor or problems will buy it (think about DukeNukem3d and DukeNukem Forever).
For example there are great sequels that put new elements into games and keep awesome level of original one like Portal and Portal2, or like Half-Life and Half-Life2. I'm sure there is nothing bad in putting into Trine2 new gameplay mechanics, new kind of puzzles and improve old ones.

I agree with you. I tried to delete my post because I felt like I spoke too soon :P.

Saturn2888
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Re: Suggestions

Postby Saturn2888 » Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:53 am

fb_joel wrote:
Saturn2888 wrote:Is surround gaming supported? I've been doing this more and more these days and have actually tried it on and off for the last 3-4 years now. Until I finally figured out how to get it working with non-same display resolutions, it wasn't working. So my question is, am I able to do something like this without the 2D image stretching of the previous game? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XmRdtnDhVE

An excellent question and a very cool video. :) I do not have an answer for this - it has not been a major design/schedule consideration for us, to be honest. However, Trine 2 is built on a new game engine, and I imagine it will quite easily support something like this. The user interface will hopefully not stretch in the same way as Trine 1, although I think that we have made some compromises in some menu items to speed up the development... So it remains to be seen. We'll try to test this before release but honestly we may not have time to properly test or implement any support for release time. Perhaps in a patch later.

If you have a demo or something, I'd be more than happy to test it on my non-standard setup and see how it works. This is a link to the version of SoftTH I use: http://www.kegetys.net/forum/index.php?topic=2123.0.

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fb_joel
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Re: Suggestions

Postby fb_joel » Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:33 pm

Thanks. I've downloaded it and will try to test it at some point, and then see how it goes. Feel free to ask again in e.g. late August, hopefully I'll have some time then. :)
// Joel, Frozenbyte team

Saturn2888
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Re: Suggestions

Postby Saturn2888 » Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:37 pm

Definitely :). I know how hard decisions like this can be. Being a game developer now myself, I'm in the same boat.

Navn
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Re: Suggestions

Postby Navn » Tue Aug 16, 2011 2:21 am

Now I know this is a rather ridiculous suggestion however I wanted to suggest that as a preorder bonus you include a TF2 hat. Of course I am going to buy the game as soon as it is available for any kind of ordering but I just wanted to put that suggestion out there. While I would love a hat, I can understand if that it might not be possible. (I'm still hoping though)

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fb_joel
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Re: Suggestions

Postby fb_joel » Wed Aug 17, 2011 8:53 pm

TF2 items have become all the rage nowadays it seems, so... I'm not ruling out a Trine 2 TF hat possibility. We will see. :)
// Joel, Frozenbyte team

Navn
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Re: Suggestions

Postby Navn » Wed Aug 17, 2011 10:35 pm

Sweet thanks! I can't wait!

clayton2
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Re: Suggestions

Postby clayton2 » Fri Aug 19, 2011 5:23 am

For the Xbox Live Arcade version, how about including Avatar Awards, such as X amount of kills as The Knight would unlock The Knight's hammer for your avatar, or getting X amount of kills as The Thief would unlock The Thief's bow and arrow, or making X amount of boxes would unlock The Wizard's box making ability for the avatar.

Or it could be the full outfits of each of those characters.
I would love to have my avatar wielding The Knight's hammer!

Zybex
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Re: Suggestions

Postby Zybex » Sat Sep 10, 2011 12:38 pm

I'd like to see Trine 2 for PC working 100% properly in 60fps, please.

Trine 1 doesn't like 60fps when it's not constant and with V-sync. ON
It works differently - everything happens and moves faster in 60fps and slows down to something like normal speed in console versions, when it drops to 30fps. Arrows fly faster/slower, characters move faster/slower etc.
In 60fps game is a little "too fast", giving a "cheap feeling" to the controls and animations (typical problem with PC games, unfortunately )

Problem occured on Intel C2D e8400 @4GHz CPU + various Nvidia GPUs (GTX260, GTX470)

Don't know how the game code is done in that matter, but if it's just a case of including some switch to "lock to 60fps instead 30fps" - then I ask you kindly for that. :)


Also - Framerates above 60Hz seems a bit jerky -like the game struggles here. Changing from 1080p to 640p doesn't help. But this is really a minor issue, since not many of us still uses CRT displays, where 60Hz is somehow painful for eyes.

Knowing that T2 engine is largely a new one - maybe it's already improved, then just ignore this post and move on to writing a long awaited statement "Trine 2 will release .. .. 2011" ;)

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fb_joel
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Re: Suggestions

Postby fb_joel » Sat Sep 10, 2011 5:12 pm

Yeah we'll look into Avatar items, but I'm not sure if we'll have them as unlockables (might be too late now to integrate them). But we'll see...

Regarding framerate... Trine is actually locked to 66 fps by default on PC. You can edit this by opening the ingame console with the F8 key and write "/show_fps 1" and "/render_max_fps 0" to remove the cap. I'm not sure why the game would behave differently with different framerates, in my/our play/tests it seems to be the same always, regardless of framerate.

But either way Trine 2 is indeed built on a completely new engine so all gameplay stuff has been written from scratch, and it should be very good. So hopefully any problems will be gone... :)
// Joel, Frozenbyte team


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