Keyboard Layouts

For discussion about Trine 2, released in December 2011 on Windows, Mac, Xbox, PlayStation Network and later on Linux and Wii U.

Would you like different keyboard layouts or the ability to create your own and share them?

Let me create and share keyboard layouts
6
60%
Just add a few more default keyboard layouts like Dvorak and Colemak.
0
No votes
Don't bother, RSI inducing Qwerty is the one true way. Make those unbelievers suffer.
4
40%
 
Total votes: 10

robertmassaioli
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Keyboard Layouts

Postby robertmassaioli » Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:43 am

I was wondering if you could add a few more keyboard layouts to the controller configuration section? For example I like to use Dvorak keyboards (actually specifically Programmer Dvorak) on my keyboards and it is a PITA to go into the keyboard layout section and change the layout to suit yourself (because I would rather change Trines layout than toggle my entire systems keyboard layout just to play trine). Essentially I like the way that the keys are laid out in the Qwerty configuration and I would love the same positioning of the keys but on a Dvorak keyboard.

The optimum solution would be to allow us to save our layouts to some sort of 'Trine Keyboard Layout' file so that we could make the layouts that suited us and share them on these forums or elsewhere. I know that you would make my brother and I happy if you did that; both of us being Dvorak fans. The ability to share and crowd-source the creating of keyboard layouts also means that trine could have many layouts for minimal effort on your part. At any rate I think it is worth a shot and I would appreciate at least getting a native Trine Dvorak layout.

Thanks for your time and an awesome game. The multiplayer in Trine 1 was awesome fun and we will be submitting our experience of the Trine 1 Linux Beta soon. Also, I love that the story is getting fleshed out and that the game will be longer; we finished the original in a day.

Tokkobot
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Re: Keyboard Layouts

Postby Tokkobot » Thu Dec 16, 2010 11:25 pm

I would have never thought some people would use different keyboard layout. I'm all for universal standards but if it works for you then cool. I don't really see this as a that big of a deal especially in Trine though since there aren't that many controls anyway. Takes maybe 10 seconds to set them to your liking. Still voted for "Let me create and share keyboard layouts" though. Doesn't sound too much of a trouble for devs to put a few extra control schemes and it's a little bit less hassle for players.

robertmassaioli
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Re: Keyboard Layouts

Postby robertmassaioli » Fri Dec 17, 2010 12:23 am

Tokkobot wrote:I would have never thought some people would use different keyboard layout.


I can understand the thought; plenty of people, developers included, wreck their hands on bad keyboard layouts every year (Qwerty).

Tokkobot wrote:I'm all for universal standards but if it works for you then cool. I don't really see this as a that big of a deal especially in Trine though since there aren't that many controls anyway. Takes maybe 10 seconds to set them to your liking.


Even so in the old trine it was about four pages of controls that I had to walk through and think about which keys correlate and that I should match them to and it actually ends up taking a few minutes. Precious minutes that I actually wanted to be in the game playing and having fun.

Tokkobot wrote:Still voted for "Let me create and share keyboard layouts" though. Doesn't sound too much of a trouble for devs to put a few extra control schemes and it's a little bit less hassle for players.


And yeah, that was the theme of my thought. I don't mind putting in a little bit of effort to get it working for me but if I do let me share it so that nobody else has to. Plus, somebody that modifies their key layout in a really clever way could share that too and perhaps there will be some clever changes. (And as for time it takes the developers; well hopefully it only takes a few minutes to a few hours to whip something together, seeing that they already offer a configurable keyboard layout section in Trine. Ideally, I would imagine that it should be easy to extend. At any rate they could just dump the layout in a file so that we can share and upload it around.)

I really hope just hope this is considered and makes it in.

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fb_joel
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Re: Keyboard Layouts

Postby fb_joel » Mon Dec 20, 2010 2:53 pm

Perhaps you mean like Trine\binds\keyboard\1\keybinds.txt ? ;) (Custom configuration 1)

Interesting proposition though. I had to google Dvorak myself. It would be rather easy to implement something like this on the code side, however the actual effort goes into the menu UI design (our menus are already horrible, adding a choice between keyboard layouts would make them even more so), and most of all, releasing a patch and testing it, that's the tough one. We'll be releasing some patches that add more languages but at the moment there's no executable changes planned for the near future.

So at the moment what we/you could do is simply make the Dvorak-customized keybinds.txt file available to other users. That's the easiest way. I hope this helps a bit, even if it's not exactly what you were hoping for.
// Joel, Frozenbyte team

robertmassaioli
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Re: Keyboard Layouts

Postby robertmassaioli » Mon Dec 20, 2010 4:27 pm

fb_joel wrote:Perhaps you mean like Trine\binds\keyboard\1\keybinds.txt ? ;) (Custom configuration 1)


Why, yes, pretty much exactly like that lol. :)

fb_joel wrote:however the actual effort goes into the menu UI design (our menus are already horrible, adding a choice between keyboard layouts would make them even more so), and most of all, releasing a patch and testing it, that's the tough one. We'll be releasing some patches that add more languages but at the moment there's no executable changes planned for the near future.


Fair enough, I completely understand that decision and TBH I prefer you putting more into the game and less into the menu system and config. What true gamer wouldn't?

fb_joel wrote:So at the moment what we/you could do is simply make the Dvorak-customized keybinds.txt file available to other users. That's the easiest way. I hope this helps a bit, even if it's not exactly what you were hoping for.


That is exactly what I will do for Trine 2. (abbrev T2?) Atleast it will be a good way to share amongst friends.

And on another note you should give keyboard layouts a good look; when you learn another layout you begin to realise that Qwerty really was the worst choice for you to start on. (But that is just my opinion; I have plenty of friends that stick with what they know.)

Thanks again for trine.

Rahabib
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Re: Keyboard Layouts

Postby Rahabib » Mon Dec 20, 2010 8:14 pm

and while you are at the other keyboards, let me be able to use the "[" and "]" keys as well :P

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fb_joel
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Re: Keyboard Layouts

Postby fb_joel » Wed Dec 29, 2010 6:02 pm

Good to hear. And yeah I think we'll try to add support for all the "extra" characters like the brackets and the dot etc, I'm not sure if it's a technical limitation but if not, then hopefully we'll support those in Trine 2. I dare not abbreviate it to T2, that's got quite a bit of emotional load associated with it. :)
// Joel, Frozenbyte team

witchdoctorIT
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Re: Keyboard Layouts

Postby witchdoctorIT » Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:05 am

So the last post in this thread was nine months ago and no solution given. Meanwhile, I have Trine via Onlive, Steam, and Desura, but as a non-standard keyboard user I get to what? The proposed solutions won't ever work for OnLive users, so why not update the game with a proper keyboard control scheme? One that can be modified via menu as has been standard dating back to the days of DOS?

The Dev's complain the UI is "ugly" or "difficult" or something, I'm not really sure what you're even getting at. Your UI is truely sparse, but as such its also flipping beautiful and I love it; If only I could properly enjoy the game without switching keyboard layouts. You think anyone in this thread is going to complain if you give us an in-game option to correct an option you overlooked the first time through and the menu to do it looks like butt? Heck, I don't care if you make it look like a Baboon's but on purpose! Once I've "had my way with it" the one time I should ever need to visit said screen, all you'll here from me or anyone else is "THANK YOU" and "FIVE STARS" or some other meaningless platitudes. Meanwhile, I'll have to wait for the kids to sleep so I can use their TV for my OnLive Console to enjoy my purchase. IRL, I have to work mornings so that's not going to happen...

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Gzegzolka
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Re: Keyboard Layouts

Postby Gzegzolka » Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:45 pm

I like to have option to modify keyboard layouts, usually I change only few buttons and use standard layout as base.

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fb_joel
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Re: Keyboard Layouts

Postby fb_joel » Tue Sep 20, 2011 10:11 pm

witchdoctorIT wrote:...


Hmm, I'm not sure if we are on the same page. Are you using a Dvorak keyboard layout?

If you are using a regular keyboard layout, then you can already customize the keys to your hearts content. You can see some of this in e.g. our Gamepad help page, with screens like this:
Image

For Dvorak users I can't offer too much help at the moment, it is still largely untested for us because we have been very busy with other things unfortunately. For Trine 2 we will see (possibly post-release) if some kind of support can be created.
// Joel, Frozenbyte team

witchdoctorIT
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Re: Keyboard Layouts

Postby witchdoctorIT » Wed Oct 05, 2011 11:12 pm

fb_joel wrote:
witchdoctorIT wrote:...


Hmm, I'm not sure if we are on the same page. Are you using a Dvorak keyboard layout?

If you are using a regular keyboard layout, then you can already customize the keys to your hearts content. You can see some of this in e.g. our Gamepad help page, with screens like this:
...

For Dvorak users I can't offer too much help at the moment, it is still largely untested for us because we have been very busy with other things unfortunately. For Trine 2 we will see (possibly post-release) if some kind of support can be created.


I tried that before finding this thread and posting. See the second screen shot shown second on the page you linked:
Image
Then please compare to the screenshot I took in Trine on OnLive just now, as follows:
Image
Right off we see that there is no second column to say "Default Configuration" or "Custom Configuration", and since clicking "PL1"-2 or -3 does nothing, and Clicking either "Mouse+Keyboard" or "Not Enough Controllers" does nothing, there is no way for me to take advantage of the how-to you've linked. As much as I am short on digital storage space(a big reason I like OnLive), I'm downloading Trine on Steam atm to see how these screens work under that model.

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fb_joel
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Re: Keyboard Layouts

Postby fb_joel » Fri Oct 07, 2011 7:49 pm

Ah, OnLive! Well that explains it. I see now that you did mention it in the original post, I just hadn't really realized it. Do other games on OnLive allow you to map the keys so that they work fine with Dvorak? I think there is (or was) some issues with allowing key mappings on OnLive earlier, so that's why they were removed. This might be something we can update later, as we work on Trine 2's OnLive version (and we'll try to include the customization options this time if it's fine with OnLive).
// Joel, Frozenbyte team

Ram-Z
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Re: Keyboard Layouts

Postby Ram-Z » Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:18 am

Still no news on this issue?

I actually don't understand why you are trying to create a new "layout file". IMHO it's quite sufficient to allow us to set actions to special characters. If we could only assign "Up" to ',' and "Use" to '.', the game would at least be playable without switching layouts before each start.

For what it's worth, I have been using a wrapper script to change my layout to "us" automatically on each start and then back.

Code: Select all

#!/bin/bash

# This is a wrapper around Trine. It will change the keyboard layout to
# us for the game and then change it back.

TRINE=/opt/trine

DIR=`pwd`
cd $TRINE
setxkbmap us
./trine-launcher
setxkbmap us dvorak
cd $DIR


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