Standalone DRM Free Non Steam Version

For discussion about Trine 2, released in December 2011 on Windows, Mac, Xbox, PlayStation Network and later on Linux and Wii U.
tech1
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Standalone DRM Free Non Steam Version

Postby tech1 » Sun Jun 19, 2011 9:12 am

Just wanted to let you know how much I liked Trine 1 but I want to make sure that the game will be distributed in a standalone DRM free non steam version! Is this going to happen? Thanks!

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FB_Lauri
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Re: Standalone DRM Free Non Steam Version

Postby FB_Lauri » Mon Jun 20, 2011 3:41 pm

The major problem with standalone non-DRM version would be lack of online multiplayer, as we plan to use steamworks for the online part of the game. We will consider this thing carefully, though.

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Gzegzolka
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Re: Standalone DRM Free Non Steam Version

Postby Gzegzolka » Tue Jun 21, 2011 7:54 am

and the off-line co-op? I hope that option do not require steam.

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Urfoex
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Re: Standalone DRM Free Non Steam Version

Postby Urfoex » Tue Jun 21, 2011 11:56 am

And what about Linux?
As long as Steam and Steamworks isn't available for Linux, Linuxusers could not play multiplayer? Or do you have something else for them?
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FB_Lauri
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Re: Standalone DRM Free Non Steam Version

Postby FB_Lauri » Tue Jun 21, 2011 9:53 pm

Offline co-op will work fine without Steam and it's likely that we'll support something else for Linux users :)

tech1
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Re: Standalone DRM Free Non Steam Version

Postby tech1 » Wed Jun 22, 2011 7:29 am

Why make a change in the face of such certain success as with the previous version of Trine. Online multilayer is great but it is not a major selling point for me or any one else I know who would buy this type of game and frankly having a game that works correctly with 2 local game pads is better.It just seems that its a better advertising and distribution model. All I am saying is don't leave it to the hackers on Pirate bay when you have the opportunity to release for sale a product that will likely be perfect on its own merit. One of the top reasons I purchased Trine is that I did not have to install steam and its attaché of crap all of my computer. Additionally the fact that the game had no DRM just spoke miles to me about what kind of people you have in charge and how forward thinking your company is. I mean you guys did pull off quite a PR stunt with the Humble Bundle and you successfully executed the concept of making your warez too cheep to steal, don't step backwards now. With that said I would be more then willing to pay for the second version of the game even at full price (less a humble bundle) However I would strongly advise that for that the second release you give the digital downloader the opportunity to get the game with out steam integration. I know plenty of people who simply will not have it on their systems including myself.

Thanks so much!, looking forward to hearing back.

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AnnularVoid
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Re: Standalone DRM Free Non Steam Version

Postby AnnularVoid » Wed Jun 22, 2011 9:52 am

FB_Lauri wrote:The major problem with standalone non-DRM version would be lack of online multiplayer, as we plan to use steamworks for the online part of the game. We will consider this thing carefully, though.

tech1 wrote:Why make a change in the face of such certain success as with the previous version of Trine. Online multilayer is great but it is not a major selling point for me or any one else I know who would buy this type of game and frankly having a game that works correctly with 2 local game pads is better. [...] One of the top reasons I purchased Trine is that I did not have to install steam and its attaché of crap all of my computer. Additionally the fact that the game had no DRM just spoke miles to me about what kind of people you have in charge and how forward thinking your company is.


I purchased Trine before HB from Direct2Drive, and then again during HB. Trine's lack of DRM was a major selling point for me. I understand that Steam was a major money-bringer for previous games, but I would never have spent a penny on a Steam-only game regardless of ways it might otherwise appeal to me. I'm pretty certain that I am not the only one who feels this way. Multiplayer is a feature that is nice to have, but not mandatory. Trine isn't an FPS. I think that a compromise might be a Steam-based multiplayer version and a separate non-multiplayer DRM-free (and Steam-free) version for those willing to spend money on a quality game without having to install third-party software or depend on third-party servers.

Just my 2 cents.
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KameZero
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Re: Standalone DRM Free Non Steam Version

Postby KameZero » Fri Jun 24, 2011 4:26 pm

FB_Lauri wrote:Offline co-op will work fine without Steam and it's likely that we'll support something else for Linux users :)

So, could we get it confirmed that, at BEST Linux users won't be able to play with anyone running the game on Windows/Mac, and the WORST (hopefully unlikely)situation is that Linux won't get any online multiplayer at all?

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fb_joel
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Re: Standalone DRM Free Non Steam Version

Postby fb_joel » Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:30 pm

It is too early to draw any conclusions - the only truth is that we have a couple of ideas regarding this, and we are very aware of the feedback and requests.

Here is how I see the situation (I am not making a promise that all this would be 100% accurate, but these are more or less the facts surrounding the situation):

- Trine 2 will launch as a SteamWorks game (Windows/Mac)
- There is nothing stopping us from adding other options as well

- We want to have Trine 2 in the Mac App Store
- Mac App Store does not allow the use of Steam (as far as we know)

- We want to have Trine 2 for Linux
- Steam does not support Linux

- Therefore the Linux and Mac App Store versions will either A) have no multiplayer, B) have a different multiplayer system

- We will work on the Linux/Mac App Store versions during the launch period (and a little bit before), and at some point we will decide the multiplayer features
- I would estimate the decision will happen 2-4 weeks after Steam launch, it may take a while longer to have the versions finished
- We have a strong desire to have multiplayer in the Linux and Mac App Store versions, because it would be a communication/support nightmare if those versions did not have multiplayer (or we'd sell them cheaper etc but those are not good solutions)


- If Linux and Mac App Store get non-Steam multiplayer, the same will most likely easily work on Windows as well
- Therefore in this situation we would look for options to enable Windows users to use the same multiplayer, and thus essentially create a non-Steam/non-DRM version of Trine 2 for Windows; however the majority of Windows users would most likely use the SteamWorks multiplayer (because it is, after all, a very good system for the majority of gamers)

- Trine 2 is a big game and a major release for us, so we plan to support it for a long time (meaning patches and updates and technical support)

So the bottom line is that Trine 2 will launch as a SteamWorks game, but a few weeks/a month after launch we will hopefully have "other solutions" available. So I would like to ask for your patience during the launch period, which may become very hectic - just hang in there and keep your fingers crossed. :) We will try to communicate the status frequently as well but this will probably be on a weekly basis and not daily.
// Joel, Frozenbyte team

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Urfoex
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Re: Standalone DRM Free Non Steam Version

Postby Urfoex » Mon Jun 27, 2011 7:30 pm

Have you evaluated RakNet (http://raknet.com/) for it?
It supports Windows, Mac and Linux and more and it can talk SteamWorks:
http://www.jenkinssoftware.com/raknet/manual/steamlobby.html
And it is possible to integrate more SteamWorks stuff:
http://www.jenkinssoftware.com/forum/index.php?topic=4042.0
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fb_joel
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Re: Standalone DRM Free Non Steam Version

Postby fb_joel » Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:39 am

We have, and it is a possible choice for the additional multiplayer system. That said, we have a lot of groundwork now done, so we may just end up being stubborn and do it on our own again. :) But yeah this is way too early to say, we'll have to see how it goes.
// Joel, Frozenbyte team

KameZero
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Re: Standalone DRM Free Non Steam Version

Postby KameZero » Thu Jun 30, 2011 2:06 am

Hmm, I see.

Assuming that the Mac app store/linux versions get their own multiplayer system, if this system was also added to the windows versions, would it be added as an alternative multiplayer system that the steam version could use? Theoretically.

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fb_joel
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Re: Standalone DRM Free Non Steam Version

Postby fb_joel » Sat Jul 09, 2011 9:16 pm

Yeah I think that's an option that we'll look into. Still no promises at this point though.
// Joel, Frozenbyte team

Speakerpankratz
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Re: Standalone DRM Free Non Steam Version

Postby Speakerpankratz » Thu Aug 18, 2011 8:06 pm

Hello, I don't know wether final decisions have been made yet, but still, I'd like explain my attitude towards Steamworks-only releases.

I'm not too fond of those. When given a choice, I always choose a Steam-free solutions. I'm not particularly interested in online multiplayer anyway, so lack of it would not be an issue. I bought Trine on Steam having no other choice at the time, but I later purchased the retail version, just so I could have an almost drm-free edition (it had a simple disc check which was even later removed via a patch, which is something I'm very grateful for).

To summarize, from my point of view, it would be fantastic if you decided to sell a Steamworks/drm-free version of Trine 2 yourselves, via this very site - that would benefit people like me and your company (100% of profits from such sales would go directly to you). I would be willing to buy the game again should a retail version eventually come out (without the Steam requirement).

Just my $0.02, thank you for reading.

Mjauv
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Re: Standalone DRM Free Non Steam Version

Postby Mjauv » Thu Aug 18, 2011 11:11 pm

I was a huge fan of the first Trine-game but I absolutely h-a-t-e Steam and will never-ever buy anything from it.

I would happily pay >50 $ for a Steam-free version of Trine 2 without any multiplayer-options whatsoever.
Puh-leeeeazzze don't make it a Steam-exclusive title! Don't let the plague of DRM ruin this wonderful experience for your fans!

/Gustav

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fb_joel
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Re: Standalone DRM Free Non Steam Version

Postby fb_joel » Fri Aug 19, 2011 10:29 pm

We hear you. Nothing new to say from our side though. We'll be a lot wiser closer to release (and shortly afterwards).
// Joel, Frozenbyte team

Franzi
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Re: Standalone DRM Free Non Steam Version

Postby Franzi » Wed Sep 14, 2011 4:24 pm

As much I loved the first Trine game and waiting for Trine 2 since the first trailer, a Steamworks-only release would be a major drawback. Like many other fans, I beseech you guys to release a Steam-free version of Trine 2.

Sprocket
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Love for steam :)

Postby Sprocket » Sun Oct 16, 2011 4:32 pm

I honestly don't know why there are so many Trine fans that hate steam, I personally think steam is a great DRM solution and find myself glad when titles come out making use of Steamworks. Looking forward to playing Trine 2 using steam! :D

moho25
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Re: Standalone DRM Free Non Steam Version

Postby moho25 » Tue Nov 08, 2011 5:42 pm

I just want to throw my hat in for a Steam-free version, as well.

I loved the original Trine, and thank you so much for making such a beautiful, fun game. I understand that Steamworks helps with the multi-player aspect of the game, but to many, this isn't worth being required to install and use 3rd party software like Steam. I for one, would forgo the multi-player aspect to avoid having to install it. I would happily pay $50 for a non-Steam, non-multiplayer version.

Also, thank you for genuinely listening to your audience about this. Unlike certain game companies, it's wonderful to see you actually participating in a dialogue with the game community on your forums, rather just locking threads when people voice their concerns and frustrations. Yeah, I'm talking about you, Bethesda.

P.S. Is there any new information about this, with the release supposedly around the corner in December?

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FB_Lauri
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Re: Standalone DRM Free Non Steam Version

Postby FB_Lauri » Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:46 am

We have taken some steps forward for the non-DRM version to happen "soon" after the release. But our official statement is "no promises", as otherwise people will be disappointed if we are a few days late. 8)

moho25
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Re: Standalone DRM Free Non Steam Version

Postby moho25 » Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:15 pm

FB_Lauri wrote:We have taken some steps forward for the non-DRM version to happen "soon" after the release. But our official statement is "no promises", as otherwise people will be disappointed if we are a few days late. 8)



You, sir, are awesome. I shall keep my fingers crossed. Frozenbyte is about to have a lifelong customer.

Speakerpankratz
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Re: Standalone DRM Free Non Steam Version

Postby Speakerpankratz » Thu Nov 10, 2011 3:59 pm

FB_Lauri wrote:We have taken some steps forward for the non-DRM version to happen "soon" after the release. But our official statement is "no promises", as otherwise people will be disappointed if we are a few days late. 8)


That's great!
May I ask a question regarding the boxed version, which is apparently being released in December?
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011- ... -announced
Will it force the buyers to install Steam? If not, I'll gladly purchase it together with the Steamless digital version.

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FB_Lauri
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Re: Standalone DRM Free Non Steam Version

Postby FB_Lauri » Fri Nov 11, 2011 10:04 am

Speakerpankratz wrote:
FB_Lauri wrote:We have taken some steps forward for the non-DRM version to happen "soon" after the release. But our official statement is "no promises", as otherwise people will be disappointed if we are a few days late. 8)


That's great!
May I ask a question regarding the boxed version, which is apparently being released in December?
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011- ... -announced
Will it force the buyers to install Steam? If not, I'll gladly purchase it together with the Steamless digital version.


All boxed versions have Steamworks to ensure easy patching.

Non-DRM-version will come to our own shop first, most likely some time after launch.

Franzi
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Re: Standalone DRM Free Non Steam Version

Postby Franzi » Sat Nov 12, 2011 6:15 am

FB_Lauri wrote:Non-DRM-version will come to our own shop first, most likely some time after launch.

This is great, thanks for the info :)

Mjauv
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Re: Standalone DRM Free Non Steam Version

Postby Mjauv » Mon Nov 14, 2011 4:33 pm

FB_Lauri wrote:
Speakerpankratz wrote:
FB_Lauri wrote:We have taken some steps forward for the non-DRM version to happen "soon" after the release. But our official statement is "no promises", as otherwise people will be disappointed if we are a few days late. 8)


That's great!
May I ask a question regarding the boxed version, which is apparently being released in December?
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011- ... -announced
Will it force the buyers to install Steam? If not, I'll gladly purchase it together with the Steamless digital version.


All boxed versions have Steamworks to ensure easy patching.

Non-DRM-version will come to our own shop first, most likely some time after launch.
That's great news. DRM-free version + a way of purchase that puts 100 % of the money in the hands of the developer? Sounds awesome!


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