Trine 2 has blown me away! 3D Vision

For discussion about Trine 2, released in December 2011 on Windows, Mac, Xbox, PlayStation Network and later on Linux and Wii U.
andysonofbob
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2011 5:32 pm

Trine 2 has blown me away! 3D Vision

Postby andysonofbob » Sun Dec 11, 2011 11:47 pm

I wish I had the words to describe the game to people who haven't gamed in 3D before. Organic. Silky. Humid. Fairy tale. Lush.

I have been gaming since 85 on the ZX Spectrum and in 3D for over two years now. This is easily the best looking game I have played. I guess because it is a side scrolling platformer you can apply graphical effects thickly where full 3D games you can't. Whatever the reason, this game blows me away. I have just gone through a transition corridor and mist was spilling out of my screen. Amazing.

I posted a thread about the crosshair - it is fine btw.

Astonishing!

***edit***
Whoops - just seen the other thread. Who cares!

User avatar
fb_juha
Posts: 71
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2005 6:18 pm

Re: Trine 2 has blown me away! 3D Vision

Postby fb_juha » Mon Dec 12, 2011 1:43 pm

Thank you very much!

Oh, and that cursor should be fixed on next patch. With high enough convergence it was pushed out of player area.

artox
Posts: 30
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 5:50 pm

Re: Trine 2 has blown me away! 3D Vision

Postby artox » Mon Dec 12, 2011 5:58 pm

I am in complete agreement, s-3d for Trine 2 is phenomenal and I'm glad to see that you've managed to implement almost all of my suggestions (with the hud disabling and re-sizing being on the way). Playing your game in s-3d has been an experience that few other games can match and the attention to detail is visible throughout the whole game. A friend and I had a blast simply by doing funny things around light sources and enjoying the correctly rendered shadows, this is how deep the game goes in the graphics department, thank you for that.

Only one question - given that the first Trine ran great with iz3d, is it going to be playable with their driver too, since I have friends, who run on AMD machines and would also like to play the game in s-3d. Currently the game freezes at launch when having s-3d enabled with the latest iz3d beta. I know that it is probably problematic to get in touch with the iz3d team, but I am hoping that more people will get to experience your game in s-3d, as for me this is the way it should be played.

User avatar
fb_juha
Posts: 71
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2005 6:18 pm

Re: Trine 2 has blown me away! 3D Vision

Postby fb_juha » Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:29 pm

artox wrote:I am in complete agreement, s-3d for Trine 2 is phenomenal and I'm glad to see that you've managed to implement almost all of my suggestions (with the hud disabling and re-sizing being on the way). Playing your game in s-3d has been an experience that few other games can match and the attention to detail is visible throughout the whole game. A friend and I had a blast simply by doing funny things around light sources and enjoying the correctly rendered shadows, this is how deep the game goes in the graphics department, thank you for that.

Only one question - given that the first Trine ran great with iz3d, is it going to be playable with their driver too, since I have friends, who run on AMD machines and would also like to play the game in s-3d. Currently the game freezes at launch when having s-3d enabled with the latest iz3d beta. I know that it is probably problematic to get in touch with the iz3d team, but I am hoping that more people will get to experience your game in s-3d, as for me this is the way it should be played.


Thank you very much! I assume you are the same artox from iZ3D forums who gave us a lot of feedback of Trine 1 implementation (I was posting there with nick hiekkama) - so thank you for that as well :).

Regarding other stereo outputs, we definitely have plans to add more of them. It looks iZ3D forums have got really quiet, but we should be able to hook their driver in a similar way as Trine1 did. Personally I'd also be interested to see if we could add some manual output modes (interlace, side-by-side and/or such).

That said, currently we have no time frames on when we start working on other outputs. Most PC stereo users are using 3D Vision, and thus other implementations have lower priority. We generally avoid exclusive solutions, so they will come eventually.

artox
Posts: 30
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 5:50 pm

Re: Trine 2 has blown me away! 3D Vision

Postby artox » Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:06 pm

Hey hiekkama/ fb_juha,
glad to know I contributed and to see what happens when a game company actually listens :)
You are right about 3dvision being the preferred solution at the moment, but I will enjoy playing the game in Side-by-Side at 1080p resolution (playing on a 3dtv), since 3dtvplay is limited in terms of other solutions. That said, I do realize you have a lot of other things to deal with, but nevertheless I am happy to hear that you have more solutions planned. Keep up the good work, I hope you inspire other developers to take stereo gaming more seriously :)

mr.serano
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:58 pm

Re: Trine 2 has blown me away! 3D Vision

Postby mr.serano » Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:08 pm

Trine 2 is AMAZING! It's the first 3D Vision game that has captivated me as much as it has. It's a beautiful and fun game and at an unbeatable pricepoint. I bought it without playing a demo or knowing much about it, but with no hesitation (for 12.99€ on STEAM, you can't go wrong) and not a single regret.

I wish NVIDIA would cooperate with you guys on promoting this game with 3D Vision sets or with Mid~High-Range VGA, rather than the Batman and Duke Nukem games they've been promoting recently.

It is absolutely the best showcase of what's possible in 3D gaming - gripping, beautiful and fun.
My only gripe with this game is that it's relatively easy.

And being able to 'fly' with the Wizard makes it even more easy - I'm not sure it's supposed to let you do it, but 'summon' a box and the wizard can move it around, right? Only not when you stand on it, but summon another box on top of it, stand on top of the two boxes and you can let the bottom one fly you to whereever. It's practically cheating, so how about you guys fix this in a patch? :-) If it's supposed to be like this, I really think it makes the game way to easy!

But : 3D Vision in Trine 2 : AWESOME!

artox
Posts: 30
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 5:50 pm

Re: Trine 2 has blown me away! 3D Vision

Postby artox » Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:23 pm

Someone with a YT account and means of capturing should upload s-3d videos, people need to see this game in stereo.

mr.serano
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:58 pm

Re: Trine 2 has blown me away! 3D Vision

Postby mr.serano » Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:25 pm

how to capture 3D video? :)

Zybex
Posts: 57
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:02 am

Re: Trine 2 has blown me away! 3D Vision

Postby Zybex » Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:30 pm

Does anyone know if 3D for CRTs still work? I have a pair of LCD shutter-glasses somewhere. I didn't use them cause my eyesight problems grew too big, but if it's so good as you say - I might just brake the glasses and glue them somehow to my correction-glasses - I don't care how silly I would be looking. It could work. Too bad I didn't find the appropriate mirror* and I still don't have enough for a good 3D plasma, but even if my shutter glasses aren't perfect - it still was something.

*) a mirror can be used to watch 3D games using two monitors/TVs and no glasses. No crosstalk, no ghosting, no nothing. I played a while on such a setup and the effect was incredible - Painkiller, Far Cry, Mafia 1 - no words to describe. Just awesome.
The bad side:
- appropriate mirror IS required. Normal has a glass, and on it's surface, a human eye can see a reflected image - causes a lot of eyestrain and damages eyes in the long term, I suppose :(
- position is not so great. You have to sit in front of the mirror, having it's side as close to your nose as possible. It just looks like some big thing, but when someone can see this flawless 3D, such thing like sitting discomfort is instantly ignored. I know what I'm talking about - I tested it on my friends :P
The appropriate mirror is called something like "surface mirror" and besides the high price, it's only available in USA and it's not a simple thing to transport this to Europe without braking or paying a fortune for the transport insurance.
If not for this - I would recommend it to anyone not rich enough to afford a Panasonic VT30 50" plasma. :)

phmayor
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:40 am

Re: Trine 2 has blown me away! 3D Vision

Postby phmayor » Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:53 am

I am currently playing the mac version and love it. But when you download form the internet there are lots of things you don't know about if someone doesn't tell you: like the ability to play it in 3D. How do I find out more about this? Also, how do I learn about things that I am missing? For example, I already passed a treasure chest that I wasn't able to get to. What did I miss? In short, how does one learn about the subtleties and secrets of the game?

artox
Posts: 30
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 5:50 pm

Re: Trine 2 has blown me away! 3D Vision

Postby artox » Thu Dec 15, 2011 11:24 am

Zybex wrote:Does anyone know if 3D for CRTs still work?

They do work, but you need drivers from iz3d and a patched Trine 2 to get it running with these drivers. Currently FrozenByte haven't patched the game, but that doesn't mean you can't buy the driver to play other games (there is also a trial). Besides the driver you also need a shutter activator, but I'm not really familiar with the method beyond knowing that it works. You have to bear in mind, however that cheap as the driver is (19$) it is currently an abandoned project, since Aug 2011there is no report from the iz3d team. You could always use a pair of anaglyph and 3dvision drivers (given that you have a Nvidia GPU) to see the marvels of the game in s-3d, but I wouldn't recommend it for anything than testing.
You could always spend less and get a vt20 tv, which is cheaper that the 2011 model (vt30), but from what I hear people are recommending Samsung's 2010 models, as they allow for checkerboard mode (1080p at 30hz instead of 24hz), which is supposedly better than Side-By-Side. However there currently is a cheaper solution, especially for gaming - the new HMD from Sony, which has oled lenses and of course zero ghosting.
phmayor wrote:I am currently playing the mac version and love it. But when you download form the internet there are lots of things you don't know about if someone doesn't tell you: like the ability to play it in 3D. How do I find out more about this? Also, how do I learn about things that I am missing? For example, I already passed a treasure chest that I wasn't able to get to. What did I miss? In short, how does one learn about the subtleties and secrets of the game?

I don't know if it is even possible to play s-3d on a Mac, as for the secrets, you could always watch a let's play video on YT, but in general the chests hold artwork and poems, maybe tunes as well, but I'm not sure about the last one.

artox
Posts: 30
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 5:50 pm

Re: Trine 2 has blown me away! 3D Vision

Postby artox » Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:22 am

So, I tested the final patch (1.08) and I have to say - great work. I truly appreciate the hud settings as well as the increased depth possibilities. I do, however have one question - is it possible to set up the UI for pop-out effect by going to negative values in the options file. Currenly 0 means on screen depth, so will -0.1 for example give a pop-out effect for the UI?

User avatar
fb_juha
Posts: 71
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2005 6:18 pm

Re: Trine 2 has blown me away! 3D Vision

Postby fb_juha » Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:05 pm

Currently that value will be clamped to 0. It's possible to remove this clamping, and with a quick look it seems it would work as well.

That said, fix for this won't make it to a patch before next week.

xitrum
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2009 3:43 pm

Re: Trine 2 has blown me away! 3D Vision

Postby xitrum » Fri Dec 16, 2011 7:12 pm

Count me in as one who's fortunate enough to enjoy Trine 2 in its glorious stereo-3D. I'm playing on a 58" 3DTV using nVidia 3DTV Play. :D

One thing I noticed, though, is that I couldn't change the convergence in 3DTV Play. I was able to do this with the original Trine game. Not sure if this is a Trine 2 issue or nVidia 3DTV Play issue.

For those who can change the convergence, try to set the convergence on the characters/heroes. See if the 3D effect is better.

User avatar
fb_juha
Posts: 71
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2005 6:18 pm

Re: Trine 2 has blown me away! 3D Vision

Postby fb_juha » Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:57 pm

xitrum wrote:Count me in as one who's fortunate enough to enjoy Trine 2 in its glorious stereo-3D. I'm playing on a 58" 3DTV using nVidia 3DTV Play. :D

One thing I noticed, though, is that I couldn't change the convergence in 3DTV Play. I was able to do this with the original Trine game. Not sure if this is a Trine 2 issue or nVidia 3DTV Play issue.

For those who can change the convergence, try to set the convergence on the characters/heroes. See if the 3D effect is better.


You can find sliders controlling stereo effect from Settings / Visual Settings menu. It allows you to tweak separation, convergence and ui depth. Contrary to Trine 1, Trine 2 doesn't use Nvidia hotkeys for controlling these.

artox
Posts: 30
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 5:50 pm

Re: Trine 2 has blown me away! 3D Vision

Postby artox » Sat Dec 17, 2011 9:49 pm

Fb_juha, I want to congratulate you for the best support of s-3d of any pc game to date. I've just finished the game with a friend (had to pause for a week so that we could wrap it up it together) and I have to say that it has been a short but exhilarating experience. The final boss sequence really blew us away and having the credits roll with depth was also a nice touch. I don't know if stereoscopy will be available to ps3 owners, but if it isn't Sony should definitely give you money to implement it, as this kind of game moves the hardware market forward.

artox
Posts: 30
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 5:50 pm

Re: Trine 2 has blown me away! 3D Vision

Postby artox » Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:24 pm

Hey, guys
just wanted to ask on the progress of negative hud and pointer (UI) implementation. I have been bringing people over to try the game and some of them are finding it difficult seeing the crosshair when it is at screen depth and there are object at negative depth blocking it. Is there a way to simply unclamp the value until the patch comes out?

User avatar
fb_juha
Posts: 71
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2005 6:18 pm

Re: Trine 2 has blown me away! 3D Vision

Postby fb_juha » Mon Jan 16, 2012 11:52 am

We are preparing a bit bigger patch for stereo things (more outputs etc). It should contain fix for the incorrect cursor fading and also a (config file) option to disable this fading completely.

Before that patch there really isn't anything that can be done for it. Hopefully we get patch out this week - at least in beta form.

artox
Posts: 30
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 5:50 pm

Re: Trine 2 has blown me away! 3D Vision

Postby artox » Mon Jan 16, 2012 2:12 pm

Great news, if there is SBS, this would finally mean 1080p instead of 720, which would really be awesome. I am probably too late in this, but is it possible that if you decide to include this output you make it over-under as well as side-by-side, since some tvs, like the Panasonic VT20 have much better scaling in OU than SBS.
Other than that I would like to say that Trine 2 has been getting a lot of praise in the Nvidia 3dvision forums, and if you haven't you should definately check them out http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?show ... 193&st=100

User avatar
fb_juha
Posts: 71
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2005 6:18 pm

Re: Trine 2 has blown me away! 3D Vision

Postby fb_juha » Mon Jan 16, 2012 4:00 pm

artox wrote:Great news, if there is SBS, this would finally mean 1080p instead of 720, which would really be awesome. I am probably too late in this, but is it possible that if you decide to include this output you make it over-under as well as side-by-side, since some tvs, like the Panasonic VT20 have much better scaling in OU than SBS.


Plan is to add native support for iz3d driver along with AMD HD3D support.

As for manual outputs we are planning to support Side-by-Side, Top-Bottom, Line-Interlace and DLP checkerboard (as well as eye-swapped versions of these). We don't actually have hardware to test many of these, so it might take a while to get all of them properly working, though.

Interesting that scaling issue with Panasonic plasmas. Thank you for the heads-up, I actually just ordered their GT30 as my home telly so I have to do some testing with it later :).

artox
Posts: 30
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 5:50 pm

Re: Trine 2 has blown me away! 3D Vision

Postby artox » Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:10 am

Sounds like a good plan :)
As for the GT30, things could be better there, it is a newer model, but be sure to get the 3rd generation glasses if the tv doesn't come bundled with them, the benefit of playing with these vs. the 1st gen (which I had) is really big. You just don't feel when they are on your head (only 26g in weight) and they are really easy to switch on/off and recharge.
As for SBS vs. Top-bottom, with the VT20 there is much more noticeable aliasing, resulting from the image manipulations.
Top-bottom is better than 720p frame-packed in terms of pure image resolution, but frame-packed delivers a sharper picture (not so noticeable compression artefacts, especially if you pump the AA and AF). A lot of gamers recommend Samsungs 2010 models, as they enable hacking for checkerboard (CB) mode, which supposedly delivers the best PQ at 1080p60 (CB), or 1080p30 full frame, whereas Panasonic tvs don't support CB and the max you can get at 1080p full frame is only 24hz=24fps with vsync.

User avatar
fb_juha
Posts: 71
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2005 6:18 pm

Re: Trine 2 has blown me away! 3D Vision

Postby fb_juha » Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:19 pm

This took a bit longer than estimated, but new stereoscopic options have now been added. New modes are still in beta stage, so all feedback is appreciated.

Zybex
Posts: 57
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:02 am

Re: Trine 2 has blown me away! 3D Vision

Postby Zybex » Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:05 am

artox
As far as I know - all gamers should recommend ONLY Panasonic plasma TVs for 3D. Not that they're superb. They simply have the smallest amount of disadvantages regarding aspects, that are important for experienced gamer.

It was a blow to see VT20, VT30 and now VT40 (called VT50) not allowing for full 1080p120 for 60fps in 3D, but now you say even p30 is unavailable? That's just sad, since TV is able to show this, but is restricted by HDMI cables standards :?
There is no info so far about the new standard, so the only option was DisplayPort, but CES2012 came and went, leaving us with nothing but disappointment :(
Dual-Link - OK, I get it. To "old" and probably pricey, but DP is cheap.
Samsungs/LGs plasma TVs are not for demanding gamers (input lag and motion resolution issues, and where not that - disqualifying blacks or remaining ghosts)
So, unless someone from LG/Samsung/other notices us - core gamers, we'll have to wait another 13-15 month hoping for new 1.5 or 1,4c standard in the meantime.




FB_juha
If I may ask - what is the biggest amount of GPU memory that Trine 2 uses in most demanding (memory wise) scene?
Without AA, 3D. I noticed 190-250MB depending on resolution and not even 400MB when 1080p +AA enabled. Makes me wonder what could happen if somehow you've found some spare time to make the mod tools for Trine 2, utilizing, let say, 3GB of today's high-end cards.
Either I'm astonished by how good a game can look even with 256MB cards, or MSI Afterburner shows some unreliable data.

Also - The background "sprites", waterfalls to be more specific - are in lower frame rate. Clearly contrasting with absolute smoothness of 60fps of the whole game. I know it's because of consoles limitations, but I wonder - if ( ;) ) you'll make Trine 3, and before next consoles arrive - Could you give pc version the "full frame-rate" versions? It won't take much of your time if you make them this way and then cut in half for consoles. It won't be so easy if your artists are drawing them by hand or carefully aligning each frame of the animation, of course ;)

User avatar
fb_juha
Posts: 71
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2005 6:18 pm

Re: Trine 2 has blown me away! 3D Vision

Postby fb_juha » Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:03 pm

Zybex wrote:FB_juha
If I may ask - what is the biggest amount of GPU memory that Trine 2 uses in most demanding (memory wise) scene?
Without AA, 3D. I noticed 190-250MB depending on resolution and not even 400MB when 1080p +AA enabled. Makes me wonder what could happen if somehow you've found some spare time to make the mod tools for Trine 2, utilizing, let say, 3GB of today's high-end cards.
Either I'm astonished by how good a game can look even with 256MB cards, or MSI Afterburner shows some unreliable data.


It's hard to be very specific on memory usage on PC as drivers/hardware do random things for resources, but I'd imagine those numbesr should be about right, at least if you are not using crazy amount of super sampling - there isn't that much difference compared to console versions for example.

Zybex wrote:Also - The background "sprites", waterfalls to be more specific - are in lower frame rate. Clearly contrasting with absolute smoothness of 60fps of the whole game. I know it's because of consoles limitations, but I wonder - if ( ;) ) you'll make Trine 3, and before next consoles arrive - Could you give pc version the "full frame-rate" versions? It won't take much of your time if you make them this way and then cut in half for consoles. It won't be so easy if your artists are drawing them by hand or carefully aligning each frame of the animation, of course ;)


I haven't asked from artists, but I think those have been rendered in some 3d program and exported as individual frames. The way we author animations doesn't make it easy to have multiple versions, but at the very least we've (or I have at least :)) been thinking of implementing a cross-fade for animated textures.

SpartanGR
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:44 am

Re: Trine 2 has blown me away! 3D Vision

Postby SpartanGR » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:55 am

Best Game Ever!!! 3D Vision rocks!!!

This game would be even more perfect if we could experience nvidia Physx. Imagine smoke, water, cloths, fire, air using hardware physx. Please think about it in the future if possible yes? I'm sure nvidia wouldn't mind :lol:

And PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE announce TRINE 3 already!!! i want to play more :)


Return to “Trine 2”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests