An interesting game...

For discussion about Trine 2, released in December 2011 on Windows, Mac, Xbox, PlayStation Network and later on Linux and Wii U.
AmanoJ
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An interesting game...

Postby AmanoJ » Sun Jan 01, 2012 12:04 am

Just recently finished the game entirely, played through my first time with a friend in online coop mode, which was great. Wanted to post a couple thoughts.

Thanks to FB for making such a beautiful and original game, I really enjoyed it. It's wonderful to see something that is so different from the other games out there at the moment, and I honestly do treasure each one of these little gems as I find them. It's getting harder and harder to find originality among games these days, so it's great to have some developers really working to make something unique.

Trine 2 was a pretty interesting game, and I feel like as it's own thing, it is pretty spectacular. However, as a sequel to the first Trine, I sort of feel like it fell short. While there were some nice additions, like the online coop (which was fun to play, even if another character just felt sort of redundant), it sort of seemed like the game got cut back in a few areas, instead of taking the original game and expanding upon those ideas. Fewer levels... but they were a bit longer, it seemed. The puzzles were at times better, but the level design felt a bit more linear with things that weren't really hidden as wonderfully as the first game.
I really enjoyed the thief, and it feels like there was less reason to use her this time, as there just seemed to be less wooden surfaces in general.

Most things were like that, sort of cut back. There were no relics or equipment this time at all... which was disappointing, as I really enjoyed collecting those and mixing them up among the characters. There was more fighting, perhaps, but that never felt like a strong point of the first game anyway. It was sort of more hack and slashy, blindly attacking. Less reason to use the shield and block or use the thief and pick at enemies strategically, etc, and more reason to just use the sword and jam on the attack button. The enemies, too, were more straightforward and dumped in packs. I loved the skeletons from the first, and loved taking them out in dozens of different ways and places, as they were scattered around the levels. :P

The skills were pretty uninteresting this time, which was too bad. The ice arrow was neat, but I sorta felt like it was pointless, since the thief couldn't really be modified to be fast enough attacking to be the go-to fighter in this game. Last one, she could be made to have tons of arrows and very fast attacks, and was definitely useful. To be honest, I was expecting to see quite a few skills, maybe even another type of growth system entirely, as an evolution from the original game's ideas.

The trophy list was really disappointing. I really enjoyed going through each level in the first game, finding all the ways the exp bottles were hidden, and looking for the well hidden relics and enemies. This game didn't even give you incentive to find them all, or even bother collecting all the hidden poems/paintings. :( First game had, I think it was 33 trophies? This one cut that down to 13, and it was just misc stuff... not even a trophy for replaying on a higher difficulty. Totally took away my incentive to replay the game on a higher difficulty and really look for everything after my initial playthrough.
A full trophy list always seemed like a tour of the game's best points, and when a platinum was involved, it seemed like a road to mastering the game. This one sort of gave some odds and ends within the game, then a platinum if you bothered with them.

Overall, the game was really well done, and I am very glad it was made and consider it a nice addition to my collection. Compared to the first, though, I feel like more was taken away than was added, and that was a bummer. The first game, I remember thinking to myself over and over that if they just expanded on the item and level system, and added some more to the game to make it longer and deeper, I would have absolutely bought it as a full game release for $40-60. It felt like a great start. I figured the sequel would, absolutely, take that great start and build upon the strengths (like, for example, giving the wizard a new type of object to draw). Sort of feels like some of the great ideas were rolled back and erased, though (removed the floating platform from the wizard's objects instead).

Thanks for a great game, apologies for the long winded post.

Jukettaja
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Re: An interesting game...

Postby Jukettaja » Fri Jan 06, 2012 8:27 pm

Since this looks like the thread for lengthier feedback I thought I'd write about my own likes and gripes. I finished the game a few days ago with a couple of friends and it was incredibly fun.

Atmosphere

Just like in the original the visuals are breath taking combined with the stellar music. The characters retain their charm and story book feel throughout the game which is what I was expecting and hoping for. The story was decent enough but not the main reason I played the game. It may have been because we spent so much time fooling around between the three of us that paying attention to all the little bits of story found in the levels took a back seat, at least for me. Although it was good to see a proper villain this time around.

Combat

One thing I thought could have been done better was the boss fights. Since these are special encounters and you can see their health bar up top I expected them to require strenght, agility and cunning to beat but what ended up happening was a slaughter run between the monster and the respawn point until eventually the thing died due to sheer number of attempts on its life. Since the game offers three different difficulty options I was hoping playing on Hard would keep it challenging. Admittedly, monsters deal more damage to you but because of the checkpoint system you simply do not suffer much for it. The same is true for the original Trine but back then we did not have proper boss fights.

I would have liked to have the bosses regain their health when all three characters died and had to restart at the last checkpoint. That would have required the players to stop and think for a stragedy for that particular foe rather than rush back in to pick at its health pool bit by bit. Of course you would have to revise the final boss not to kill all three characters the moment they spawn, in fact, that's something you could fix regardless.

Loot

I also share some of the views AmanoJ has about the game. Particularly the loss of inventory items that allowed you to customize characters to your liking. Like AmanoJ pointed out the poems and pictures offered less incentive to look for all the secret chests. That is not to say they were not pretty pieces of art but as collectables they just didn't cut the mustard for me.

Skill Tree

As far as abilities go I was surprised by how few skills there actually were in the game. I had to keep reminding myself it's not an RPG but a platformer. Because I've only played the knight thus far I cannot really say who has the best or most interesting skillset. However, I can definitely see a slight switch in balance between the characters. That's not necessarily a bad thing.

In the first game you could overcome pretty much any obstacle as Zoya with the grappling hook without needing any help from the other characters. This time round you need at least the wizard to stick that wooden box from the ground to the spikes on the ceiling before swinging over to the next checkpoint. I don't know what to think of the new Stealth skill to be honest. In away it's cool and flashy and at least one level comes to mind where I'd say it comes in handy but other than that I don't see the point in hiding from enemies. I guess being invisible gives you more time to draw that frost arrow before releasing it.

I miss the knight's ability to pick up and throw objects but again I'm guessing this was done to make the wizard feel more useful. I still enjoyed the role I got to play as Pontius especially the charge ability which was quite powerful and the use of the shield both as a shelter from arrows and spears but also as an extra platform for others to jump onto. However, I never got the hang of the special block that allows you to hold an enemy in place.

I won't lament over the loss of the floating platform because of how easy it made the first Trine. In return Amadeus got the ability to toss enemies into the air and the choice between four boxes or four planks or anything in between. I would say that's a fair trade.

Conclusion

It all comes down to the nature of the puzzles, which in my opinion were inventive, made reasonable sense and offered other solutions besides the man made pile of boxes. The combat too, apart from the few gripes I mentioned above was entertaining, particularly the way goblins would appear from the background scenery, which really makes the world feel less two dimensional.

So overall it's definitely my favourite platform game this year - I mean last year. Triple fun with friends.

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FB_Lauri
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Re: An interesting game...

Postby FB_Lauri » Sun Jan 08, 2012 2:15 pm

Thanks guys :)

We're experimenting on adding more achievements to the PC version. Consoles have their own limits unfortunately, so it's not allowed on them.

Treznor
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Re: An interesting game...

Postby Treznor » Sun Jan 08, 2012 10:42 pm

I've also something I'd like to add. First of all. I have never seen such beautiful game in my entire life. The graphics, that is. Normally I'm not really into the visual part, but this time I was totally impressed. It's still an amazing game, although it feels exactly like trine 1. The problem I was having is the difficulty setting. Trine was... well pretty much the easiest game I've ever played. Enemies were straight forward and died easily. Dying wasn't much a problem, you just respawned and could keep on fighting. You were pretty much immortal. The rest of the game was even easier. Pick wizard, create two boxes and let the one on the bottom float. You can fly wherever you want, pick all the xp bottles and fly to the next spawn point. There was never anything challenging, except for the last part.

Trine 2 is... exactly the same. Atm I'm at chapter three and again, nothing challenging. Once again, I can just fly wherever I want and could just skip everything if I wanted to. I'm wondering: why is it so easy? I have to admit, I only found the hardest games in the world really challenging and I suppose this game is also meant for casual gamers, but I was really hoping part two would at least be a little bit harder than the previous one. I'll still buy both the ps3 and pc version (the pc version I already have) but I'm a little disappointed. I'd really like to know why you guys chose to make this game so easy.

So far I give this game a 7 out of 10

Greetings from the Netherlands

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FB_Lauri
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Re: An interesting game...

Postby FB_Lauri » Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:13 pm

The earlier parts of Trine 2 are indeed as easy as Trine 1, but the latter levels should be significantly harder. :wink:

Treznor
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Re: An interesting game...

Postby Treznor » Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:27 am

@FB_Lauri: you're right, the moment you said that it really became a little harder. Still nothing I couldnt solve by flying over it. Just reached the troll boss dude but that was bugging. I just ran to the left side and kept hitting him with the warrior. He tried to hit me but got stuck in the wall at first, but when he got out he still couldn't do a thing. It just kept trying to hit me but it appeared he couldn't at the spot where I was standing. The part after that, the poison clouds and the machine, also totally useless. Once again I could use the two boxes to float over it. Is there going to be a patch that removes the ability to fly or something? I suppose it's not supposed to be in it because it just ruins every sort of puzzle in the game.

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FB_Esa
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Re: An interesting game...

Postby FB_Esa » Mon Jan 09, 2012 9:31 am

Treznor wrote:Once again I could use the two boxes to float over it. Is there going to be a patch that removes the ability to fly or something? I suppose it's not supposed to be in it because it just ruins every sort of puzzle in the game.


This is actually a (accidental?) desing choice and taking this away would somewhat limit the ways players can solve puzzles. From personal experience the floating/flying trick is far more slower than doing the puzzle in a "proper" way.
Also the way that the flying works in the game makes it kind of slow to solve puzzles. Sure it can solve many puzzles but whats the fun in that? :)

Don't really know if we are going to patch this or not but in my opinion its working fine at the moment. There is no puzzle that requires it tho and almost everything can be done quicker without the flying :)

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FB_Lauri
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Re: An interesting game...

Postby FB_Lauri » Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:42 am

We are most likely going to remove or limit the autolevitate significantly.

Jukettaja
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Re: An interesting game...

Postby Jukettaja » Mon Jan 16, 2012 12:17 am

... I never got the hang of the special block that allows you to hold an enemy in place.


The move I am talking about is shown in the clip below at the 00:40 mark when the knight fights the goblin and they get sort of tangled in a cool pose and the knight then gets to stab the goblin in one fatal swing.

Making of Trine 2: Just a Shield?

I played through the whole game without succeeding in it a single time and then afterwards I went all the way to test this. I had a 5-10 minute duel with a dagger holding goblin as shown in the video and it still did not function. Any idea why it's not working for me?

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FB_Lauri
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Re: An interesting game...

Postby FB_Lauri » Sun Feb 26, 2012 2:37 am

Jukettaja wrote:
... I never got the hang of the special block that allows you to hold an enemy in place.


The move I am talking about is shown in the clip below at the 00:40 mark when the knight fights the goblin and they get sort of tangled in a cool pose and the knight then gets to stab the goblin in one fatal swing.

Making of Trine 2: Just a Shield?

I played through the whole game without succeeding in it a single time and then afterwards I went all the way to test this. I had a 5-10 minute duel with a dagger holding goblin as shown in the video and it still did not function. Any idea why it's not working for me?


Unfortunately we had to remove the move from the final game as it caused too much technical issues. It's a shame as it's a really cool move. :?


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