Some Suggestions after playing through a few times

For discussion about Trine 2, released in December 2011 on Windows, Mac, Xbox, PlayStation Network and later on Linux and Wii U.
FantasywriterDH
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2011 7:25 am

Some Suggestions after playing through a few times

Postby FantasywriterDH » Sun Jan 15, 2012 1:20 am

First off, I want to say We Love the Game. It's definitely more of what my family was expecting, despite the lengthened wait for release. We've played through it a couple of times and we have a few suggestions... some old, some new. This is all regarding the Local Co-op PS3 Gameplay.

1) As in the first Trine, we felt that even though the field of viewable area with 2-3 of us playing on the same screen (of course) was improved, still is extremely limiting. It does help that the screen more follows 2 players over one when seperated, but there are plenty of times where the seperated play is off screen until the "Silent" teleport happens (This is another point).
It would be nice if the field of view would expand out more. A minimum area of view around each player would eliminate going off screen. Now i don't know programming or the games limitations, but I don't see why it's currently so limited. So, what would be acceptable? In my mind, at least the length and height of one room/area... zooming out in order to do so. This is easier for closed in areas... but even outdoor areas should have a nice line of sight. This may pull the action at a distance, but then this is player's choice. The benefits of the improved visibility would outweigh the smaller characters (not that it would be That far). Plus, this would eliminate a lot of UNWANTED teleporting, and getting lost due to teleporting.

2) Again, this is an old hat complaint, The Thief's swinging, sways the screen! Now, if you're on your own, no big deal, but when you have friends on the same screen and someone is swinging around... it makes it very difficult for someone using the wizard to draw a box. There really needs to be an option to turn off the screen sway, or have the game automatically switch it off when more than one local player is playing.

3) We love that each player can swap through the different characters, that eliminates the whole debate of who is going to be who. Absolutely awesome, But... The color trim on the rogue is too miniscule to see the difference and when we all go Rogue :mrgreen: we get lost admist ourselves very easily. The Warrior is better to differenciate, except when he's facing forward and his cloak is behind him. The Wizard is the easiest to see, except, we feel the Magic cursor should be a brighter color of the wizard. The different shape of magic cursor of player 2 is good, but the third is still a circle like player 1... perhaps a Triangle cursor? That and the color Representation would be nice and make it easier to see. Finally on the colors... Could you guys provide a selection of different color options? Too me this would be easy enough to do. Not everyone likes to be "Yellow" lol.

4) I agree with another thread that the game isn't as Challanging is it should be in some areas. Personally I would love to see more Goblins and Ogres... mini spiders, etc. To see a horde of goblins rushing or ambushing you is what would make this game more challenging. I feel those moments of what's currently there just goes by too quickly. The different degrees of difficulty should Multiply the enemies you face. Also, if your team dies, the enemies should be replenished... to help remove the God-Mode feel.

5) The Replayability is reduced. After going through the levels and finishing the game there's no longer a need to look for the "Goodies." The goodies are already gone from the previous run. And we miss the Items of the first. Miss the Triangle of the wizard. The objectives of the game are reduced... who needs experience now... and it would be nice to have other skills or weapon improvements. I would have prefered a tier of Easy/normal -> challanging -> Hardcore -> Insane... advancing the characters all throughout each finish of the game. This would keep the Hunt going and give us a reason to play again and again without having the pain of Starting ALL OVER and having to get the Fire sword Again, and all the other basics. Allow us to continue to improve our items, skills, etc to play the harder levels. This would greatly improve the Replayability!

6) Ah yes, lastly... For those moments when one is teleported to the other players... Why oh why, is it "Silent"? there's no que to a teleportation. I personally deplore this teleport other than when a player gets stuck. The wider visibility would help eliminate this, but when it's neccessary... a cool sound (Graphic would be nice too) would be nice to know you've been displaced.

Overall, I applaud you guys on the excellent improvements, art, story, music score. It's really great to play. These suggestions are viable improvements to help it flourish and be replayable. I don't know if this is all possible, but, would be a most welcome addition. Thank you for your dedication!

Herbert
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 7:22 pm

Re: Some Suggestions after playing through a few times

Postby Herbert » Sun Jan 15, 2012 4:43 pm

1) Thanks for pointing this out. I wanted to mention the very same issue. I believe the screen is currently limited by the height of the level artwork. The view cannot extend further than the ceiling. However, I'd be happy if the view was letterboxed. Just add black borders to top and bottom to cut off the view into the void and center the resulting image. Framerates will drop if players move far apart, but I want more "no one must be left behind" feeling, so players shouldn't be doing that anyway.
2) This is indeed annoying, maybe when swinging in local co-op the hook's position should be used for camera positioning, not Zoya's herself.

And my own thoughts, mostly about level design compared to Trine 1.
7) Puzzle Complexity: In Trine 2 the puzzles are somewhat more elaborate like "you need to pull the hidden lever, then go back as an elevator descends you didn't see before". For that reason we sometimes completely missed the puzzle when we ninja'd our way through the level. Complex puzzles are a good idea in general, but I think their inention should be cept clear and visible. In a side-scroller I anticipate needing good timing and a bit of luck, in Trine 2 it's more like "what the hell do you want me to do?"
8) Resemblance: In Trine 1, every level had it's own unique theme. I remember the "Ruins of the Perished" to be geaming in orange sunlight while "Iron Forge" was all dark and scary. In Trine 1 everything resembled the one theme in the level. In Trine 2 the theme changes completely in some levels, especially in the indoorsy levels. I don't like that, it takes the value of recognision. I can't really tell you the name of which level I played yesterday. Exception: The theme in "Searock Castle" changes with the progess, this is just fine.
9) Size: In my opinion the "rooms" in Trine 2 are smaller than in Trine 1. When I started in "Iron Forge" I thought something like "Wow, this place is huge". I miss that feeling in Trine 2. It's probably only the zoom or FOV, but the levels seem so small in height. The rooms look crowded, I feel like the character would knock everything over when turning around.
10) Portals: Portals are cool, but I think they are out of place here. The portals are the only things that are not well done in Trine 2. Sometimes when an object pushes a character through a portal, I't just doesn't work. The character isn't teleported, instead he/she is killed and/or the box is destroyed. Additionally the Trine portals don't preserve the relative entering position.
11) Birds: The model is fine for sitting birds. But airborne they look odd, more like flying grilled chicken. You forgot to make the chest slimmer. Birds "unfluff" their feathers before taking off. Whoever did this animation obviously didn't examine the movement of birds properly. This is sad as it generates a huge contrast to the very well done movements of the flowers or the snake.
12) I miss the annoying bats. I also miss an annoying "you have to light the torch" level.

Now don't get me wrong here, ranting all over the game. I still love Trine for it's astonishing graphics and beautiful fantastic setting. I consider the removal of "mana/energy" a very good move. The ability that you can save at any time is very useful, much less frustration and more fun. And if I want to make it harder for myself, I can always choose to restart the level upon death of all three characters.

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FB_Lauri
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Re: Some Suggestions after playing through a few times

Postby FB_Lauri » Sun Feb 26, 2012 2:32 am

FantasywriterDH wrote:1) As in the first Trine, we felt that even though the field of viewable area with 2-3 of us playing on the same screen (of course) was improved, still is extremely limiting. It does help that the screen more follows 2 players over one when seperated, but there are plenty of times where the seperated play is off screen until the "Silent" teleport happens (This is another point).
It would be nice if the field of view would expand out more. A minimum area of view around each player would eliminate going off screen. Now i don't know programming or the games limitations, but I don't see why it's currently so limited. So, what would be acceptable? In my mind, at least the length and height of one room/area... zooming out in order to do so. This is easier for closed in areas... but even outdoor areas should have a nice line of sight. This may pull the action at a distance, but then this is player's choice. The benefits of the improved visibility would outweigh the smaller characters (not that it would be That far). Plus, this would eliminate a lot of UNWANTED teleporting, and getting lost due to teleporting.


I agree with the problem and I must admit that we ran out of time with local co-op tweaks, even Trine 2 had it all done better than in Trine 1. Now we have patched a lot the local co-op cameras for PC/Mac versions, but unfortunately the console patches will take some time due to the limitations set by the console channels/owners.

On technical/artistic side a simple zoom out would not work, as the game is tweaked to use maximum performance of consoles and still maintain 30 fps, so even a small zooming out would blow that up :)


FantasywriterDH wrote:2) Again, this is an old hat complaint, The Thief's swinging, sways the screen! Now, if you're on your own, no big deal, but when you have friends on the same screen and someone is swinging around... it makes it very difficult for someone using the wizard to draw a box. There really needs to be an option to turn off the screen sway, or have the game automatically switch it off when more than one local player is playing.


I agree with this problem and we had already designed functionality where screen sway would stop whenever wizard starts drawing something, but unfortunately this feature had to be dropped as we didn't have enough time to implement it. :?


FantasywriterDH wrote:3) We love that each player can swap through the different characters, that eliminates the whole debate of who is going to be who. Absolutely awesome, But... The color trim on the rogue is too miniscule to see the difference and when we all go Rogue :mrgreen: we get lost admist ourselves very easily. The Warrior is better to differenciate, except when he's facing forward and his cloak is behind him. The Wizard is the easiest to see, except, we feel the Magic cursor should be a brighter color of the wizard. The different shape of magic cursor of player 2 is good, but the third is still a circle like player 1... perhaps a Triangle cursor? That and the color Representation would be nice and make it easier to see. Finally on the colors... Could you guys provide a selection of different color options? Too me this would be easy enough to do. Not everyone likes to be "Yellow" lol.


The different colors for the same characters were included only in the very end of the development and while the first selection - red, green and blue - sounded too obvious it also was it, as we wanted to keep the default outfits as the player 1 outfits to avoid different kind of confusion. With this decision we limited the player 2 and 3 color choices to very minimal - and the colors got even more narrowed down when we noticed that certain colors would not stand apart from each other in the very first level (Amadeus's introduction) due the dark lighting. So in the end only normal colors, yellow and violet stood out to match the rather complicated needs of our second and third player colors. :D

FantasywriterDH wrote:4) I agree with another thread that the game isn't as Challanging is it should be in some areas. Personally I would love to see more Goblins and Ogres... mini spiders, etc. To see a horde of goblins rushing or ambushing you is what would make this game more challenging. I feel those moments of what's currently there just goes by too quickly. The different degrees of difficulty should Multiply the enemies you face. Also, if your team dies, the enemies should be replenished... to help remove the God-Mode feel.


I agree, and we will address this issue with a patch, unfortunately again first for PC/Mac, consoles as soon as they make it possible.

FantasywriterDH wrote:5) The Replayability is reduced. After going through the levels and finishing the game there's no longer a need to look for the "Goodies." The goodies are already gone from the previous run. And we miss the Items of the first. Miss the Triangle of the wizard. The objectives of the game are reduced... who needs experience now... and it would be nice to have other skills or weapon improvements. I would have prefered a tier of Easy/normal -> challanging -> Hardcore -> Insane... advancing the characters all throughout each finish of the game. This would keep the Hunt going and give us a reason to play again and again without having the pain of Starting ALL OVER and having to get the Fire sword Again, and all the other basics. Allow us to continue to improve our items, skills, etc to play the harder levels. This would greatly improve the Replayability!


In Trine 2 there's still the possibility of playing Game+ with your current game. Indeed in Trine 2 the items have been changed to more functional character leveling system, but of course getting all the skills doesn't feel the same as getting all the items. There's also the hidden poems and hidden art for treasure hunters, and I would suggest to try to collect them all as the hidden places in Trine 2 are sometimes really challengin! 8)

FantasywriterDH wrote:6) Ah yes, lastly... For those moments when one is teleported to the other players... Why oh why, is it "Silent"? there's no que to a teleportation. I personally deplore this teleport other than when a player gets stuck. The wider visibility would help eliminate this, but when it's neccessary... a cool sound (Graphic would be nice too) would be nice to know you've been displaced.


I agree, we simply ran out of time to fine-tune our game to be perfect :?

FantasywriterDH wrote:Overall, I applaud you guys on the excellent improvements, art, story, music score. It's really great to play. These suggestions are viable improvements to help it flourish and be replayable. I don't know if this is all possible, but, would be a most welcome addition. Thank you for your dedication!


Thank you for the comments!


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