Language

All discussion about Shadowgrounds.
sd

Language

Postby sd » Wed Nov 16, 2005 1:48 pm

Lets see.

English games speak english. German games speak german. Polish games speak polish. Finnih games speak ...English and German ???

Why you are not having a finnish option on the language selections ? Part of the fascination in Star Wreck for example was that it was in Finnish with English subtitles.

Who says that people in Ganymede in one day are all English ??

Where is national pride ?

SD

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lator
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Postby lator » Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:32 pm

I have also wondered this, bur I think that an action game would be ridiculous with finnish dubbing. I don't know, it just wouldn't sound very great. Finnish subtitles should be availabe, i do think.

E: Two times "ä" instead of "'". I always do that thing :D
Last edited by lator on Thu Nov 17, 2005 1:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Sampo
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Postby Sampo » Thu Nov 17, 2005 9:24 am

Finns are used to see and hear English everywhere. It's natural choice to put English people on Finnish game with that reason, also.

Most of the people think it is not believable, if Finns habitated a Ganymede colony. This does not have much to do with the English names, since people all over the world take English people conquering the space for granted. For example German and French people can be only side-characters.

You state a great question, however. It would have been nice to have something from Finland in Shadowgrounds (more than Tallinna and Rosella references).

SD

Language

Postby SD » Mon Nov 21, 2005 2:34 pm

Sampo wrote:Finns are used to see and hear English everywhere. It's natural choice to put English people on Finnish game with that reason, also.

Most of the people think it is not believable, if Finns habitated a Ganymede colony. This does not have much to do with the English names, since people all over the world take English people conquering the space for granted. For example German and French people can be only side-characters.

You state a great question, however. It would have been nice to have something from Finland in Shadowgrounds (more than Tallinna and Rosella references).


In real life yes, but this is a fiction story. In fiction it is possible that the new superpower (like in Star Wreck) is finnish :)

Seriously speaking, why is the game also available in German if it is not written in Germany ? Is it more believable to have Germans in Ganymede ?

SD

CodSlap

Postby CodSlap » Tue Nov 22, 2005 10:35 am

It's the German standard. Go out to a game store in Germany, pick a title up and there's a good chance it's localized to that region. E.G. It's all German. It derives simply for the fact that a lot of Germans aren't very good in languages, since most of the day-to-day stuff is in German, including imported tv-shows which are dubbed.

So... if dubbed Shadowgrounds makes better sales in Germany, isn't it reasonable to have it in German because it will definitely have a much bigger market there? ;)

Cultural differences people, respect 'em. Although I too tried to find some added jokes about Finland or at least one clearly finnish crewmember.

That would be a great thing to add to a patch, by the way. Have some of the computers display personal correspondence in different languages... for example Finnish, German and heck, French if all I care. :) It would be a tad more believable. Not necessary, but would add a nice touch.

Fah

Postby Fah » Tue Nov 22, 2005 12:11 pm

CodSlap wrote:It's the German standard. Go out to a game store in Germany, pick a title up and there's a good chance it's localized to that region. E.G. It's all German. It derives simply for the fact that a lot of Germans aren't very good in languages, since most of the day-to-day stuff is in German, including imported tv-shows which are dubbed.

So... if dubbed Shadowgrounds makes better sales in Germany, isn't it reasonable to have it in German because it will definitely have a much bigger market there? ;)

Oh come on, have you ever thought about the fact ~55 Million possible video game customers is a bit more profitable than localizing a game for about 3.4 million finnish people (aged 16-64)? There are also 3 different german-speaking countries: Germany, austria and switzerland. Well, maybe there are people who can barely speak other languages, but they would not be the bigger part.

Although I live in germany, I often import games and DVDs. German synchro always sounds like the people were bored, even if the world is attacked by Aliens.

An example would be a comparison of two sentences in Call of Duty 2. The one of the US version and the other one taken from the german localization.Klick. just click on "free" and then wait the timer for reaching 0.

While the english shouts emotionally, the german sounds like uncle gay would tell a story to his comrades :D

Regards
Fah

SD

Language

Postby SD » Tue Nov 22, 2005 1:55 pm

CodSlap wrote:It's the German standard. Go out to a game store in Germany, pick a title up and there's a good chance it's localized to that region. E.G. It's all German. It derives simply for the fact that a lot of Germans aren't very good in languages, since most of the day-to-day stuff is in German, including imported tv-shows which are dubbed.


I wasnt talking about dubbing. I hate it because you never hear the original voice of an actor :) I also love Japanese films speaking Japanese and German speaking German etc. Every time you dub, you loose a joke or expression or the spoken text is cut. This is more visible on the non-germanic languages where mouth movements do not match the voice regardless of clever dubbing technologies in Germany.

I was talking about for Finns making a Finnish title. Complete with Finnish acting and scripts and pda texts. Not that hard, considering that all is in texts and audiofiles. Cheaper actors would be available and it would be rather easy imho.

CodSlap wrote:So... if dubbed Shadowgrounds makes better sales in Germany, isn't it reasonable to have it in German because it will definitely have a much bigger market there? ;)


I'd say its a matter of artistic touch of using your own language instead of using multinational languages for items. If you look for some other games made in Chez and Poland etc, those use their own language and have options for other languages in their games and I doubt it because they wouldnt be able to speak English.

Or use another language like Mika Kaurismaki used Italian in Rosso movie. Assuming that everyone in future speaks English is imho having a narrow view to art of games. StarWreck (http://www.starwreck.com) has been downloaded for 2,5million times around the globe even though it is in Finnish with english subtitles.

Who even says that English after hundred years is anything close to current English ? I can easily cope with English - I have around 2000 english titles and also speak 7 other languags too but isnt it reasonable that if you expect that all movies and games to be in German that you buy that I would expect mine to be in Finnish ?

But of course I do understand the limitations of the developer resources, willingness to have greater share, having to comply to publishers culture, minimizing risks of adoption etc. The point is not however of what is cost-effective or is what it has 'always' been like.

What I would like to point out though that games have almost unlimited amount of possibilities in hand when the actors and worlds are virtual.

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Postby Korinu » Wed Nov 23, 2005 2:45 pm

Off-Topic:

Fah wrote:There are also 3 different german-speaking countries: Germany, austria and switzerland. Well, maybe there are people who can barely speak other languages, but they would not be the bigger part.


There are 4 different german-speaking countries! Don't forget the Principality of Liechtenstein where i live, man. Famous for money laundering and low taxes. It's a shame that everyone forgets about us. :roll:

Fah

Postby Fah » Wed Nov 23, 2005 7:48 pm

Didnt know Liechtenstein still exists :D *scnr*

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Postby fb_joel » Sat Nov 26, 2005 1:59 am

This is a really controversial issue in the Nordic countries at the moment. I just got back today from Sweden where this and other Nordic issues were discussed. It's a cultural issue - one could argue that the Nordic countries are so "americanized" that we just accept nothing else but English for our entertainment.

But, there are a few real reasons why we didn't do Finnish localization. #1 studio/directing time costs a lot of money here. #2 good actors aren't cheap either (and with amateur actors it would take more time, and we were already very short on time). #3 the script would have had to be rewriten, and that might have taken much more time than anticipated (I nor anyone else here have ever written any proper Finnish dialogue, so it would have felt weird, and probably sound awful). English flows more naturally to us (due to the heavy bombarding of English entertainment we are subjected to 8) ).

And #4, I have never seen a good Finnish localization of a game (well there aren't many - I guess the Sly Coopers on PS2 might be pretty good but I haven't tested them yet). Finnish is a great language but it's hard to think how it would work in Shadowgrounds...

(Fun fact: At one point, around 4 months ago maybe, we did consider using Finnish voice talent, and doing English+Finnish voices. In the end it would have been way too costly and the English quality might have suffered because of that.)

That said, we always planned to make a special edition or something, where we would do a "fun" Finnish localization by ourselves and with amateurs... not sure what is going to happen with that idea now. It looks like the game is becoming quite succesful (thanks to everyone who's bought the game!), so we might well do something extra. We'll see.

There are a couple of inside/Finnish jokes in the game (some names etc), but it takes a bit of a looking to find them, and even then they might be hard to recognize.

I think the German voiceactors did a great job with intonation, which is cool even if we don't know the language...

Next week we'll address some issues on the boards, and also probably release the first patch.
// Joel, Frozenbyte team

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Postby Qraft » Sat Nov 26, 2005 11:16 am

where in sweden did you go to?

it sure would be fun to have the game in finnish :wink:
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Game of the year 2006 :D

otus

Postby otus » Mon Nov 28, 2005 8:09 pm

is there english version? and is game coming to finland?

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Postby Sampo » Mon Nov 28, 2005 8:14 pm

Have you been sleeping or what? :?: This game is Finnish and it was first released here, almost a month ago.

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Postby Grisu » Mon Nov 28, 2005 9:54 pm

otus wrote:is there english version? and is game coming to finland?


Don't you have a Royal Mail in Finland? :lol:

otus

Postby otus » Wed Nov 30, 2005 3:37 pm

there is no reviews and no news on home site (and no english demo, i dont speak german and i dont understand it)

Guest

Postby Guest » Wed Nov 30, 2005 3:58 pm

otus wrote:there is no reviews and no news on home site (and no english demo, i dont speak german and i dont understand it)


What I'm thinking of is buying the English version somewhere online.

otus

Postby otus » Wed Nov 30, 2005 5:25 pm

oh and what is Royal Mail?

SD

Language

Postby SD » Fri Dec 02, 2005 10:05 am

fb_joel wrote:This is a really controversial issue in the Nordic countries at the moment. I just got back today from Sweden where this and other Nordic issues were discussed. It's a cultural issue - one could argue that the Nordic countries are so "americanized" that we just accept nothing else but English for our entertainment.

That said, we always planned to make a special edition or something, where we would do a "fun" Finnish localization by ourselves and with amateurs... not sure what is going to happen with that idea now. It looks like the game is becoming quite succesful (thanks to everyone who's bought the game!), so we might well do something extra. We'll see.


Dont take me wrong, this is really great game and english voice acting is exceptionally good - it sounds like english people did it instead of finnish :D using english in no way decreases the value of it.

Whereas I shared your opinion of americanization in finland on past, I have become a bit patriotic on my elder ages after the consumption of so much english material. As a developer (almost became game developer too few years ago) with extensive and long love in playing and following game development business I have seen the pc game business to divert from console business to be more and more like film noir, where small indipendent companies develop extraordinary titles. Some of the indie titles do not make it and some become great successes like yours.

An indie has to be original in order to stand up from the mass, it cannot just sell by the name of the developer (EA, Ubisoft etc) nor can it sell by the making of IV't of the same series with slight modifications. Some of the indies target of selling their companies by making a hit and some take the bride to make the games of their liking because their mother companies do not allow for individualism and freedom of expression.

Adding finnish, and mind you, serious acting (even with amateurs as it is easier to find good finnish amateur voice actors from finland than english), would add imho nice film noir factor to games. After all, Kaurismaki for example does his films in finnish (well, one in italian) and he has won prices in cannes....
:wink:

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Postby Grisu » Fri Dec 02, 2005 12:47 pm

As said before, I'd like to have all languages on the discs, so the user can decide which one he likes best.


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