Great game killed by lack of saves

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Midnight Mick
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Great game killed by lack of saves

Postby Midnight Mick » Wed Mar 22, 2006 10:45 am

I've just spent the last hour & a half playing a mission only to get killed by a robot near the end (Where you pick up the rail gun & flame thrower) & got sent right back to the very beginning!

What's with the lack of being unable to save the game yourself?

I cannot believe that if missions take this long that users are not allowed to save for themselves?

I can understand the "Respawns" but when missions take as long as this then a "Save" feature is a necessity, especially when you may not die but simply just have to come off the computer.

IMO this seriously let's a great game down. :(

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fb_joel
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Postby fb_joel » Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:15 pm

Sorry to hear you died at the end. :?

It's true that this is a bit of a problem, and we will address this issue in future games... It can't be patched to Shadowgrounds because it requires a lot of work (and preferably a rework of the engine).

We didn't plan to have very long missions originally, so we figured we wouldn't need saving either... It's one of those mistakes that we made simply due to lack of experience.

We added respawns later, and hoped they would be enough for most players and that they would actually make the game more challenging (vs. normal savegames). I think there's 5 respawns on Easy and Normal modes, and usually that's enough to get players through the mission. Bosses do make an exception, though, because they can kill you real fast if you aren't prepared...

But the good news is that you can probably complete the level in 30 minutes now that you know where everything is. :wink:
// Joel, Frozenbyte team

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CoolBoy
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Postby CoolBoy » Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:21 pm

I personally think the lack of a savegame feature keeps you in the action, rather than having to wait for loading screens or lag while quicksaving. Some might argue that this makes the game too easy, but considering the length of the game it doesn't matter all that much.
"Evil will always triumph because good is dumb." Spaceballs

escapedturkey
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Postby escapedturkey » Wed Apr 19, 2006 4:33 pm

The respawn system seems to work nicely. What happens if you completely die, does it just go to the previous mission or do you have to start the entire game over?

Thank you. 8)

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Mr. ShadowStealer
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Postby Mr. ShadowStealer » Wed Apr 19, 2006 8:15 pm

If I remember right you just have to start the entire level all over again. That's all.
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escapedturkey
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Postby escapedturkey » Thu Apr 20, 2006 5:45 am

If that's the case, then it's not so bad at all. In a way it makes it challenging.

If you want to keep the quicksavers happy, I suggest giving an option for endless respawns # perhaps as a cheat or game option.

8)

escapedturkey
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Postby escapedturkey » Fri Apr 21, 2006 7:43 pm

It does save when you go to your next mission.

Request # perhaps put some text saying it's saving so we know when?

Thank you. 8)

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sMull
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Postby sMull » Sat Apr 22, 2006 8:25 pm

I like the save system used in the game, even if you die you are respawned.

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Sampo
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Postby Sampo » Sun Apr 23, 2006 12:09 pm

Shadowgrounds 1.0 is too easy for having save states where the player wants.

The upcoming difficulty levels may change this, but still, the respawning system is a part of the challenge.

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Aureoloss
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Postby Aureoloss » Wed May 03, 2006 6:42 pm

i agree, the best help they could give to those quicksavers is to just throw some checkpoints here and there so that you'll restart in that area, instead of the begining of the level. i've only lost all my respawns once, and it was just on the first level while i was getting used to the controls. once you get used to not playing like a savage running around charging at the brutes just cause you want to, you'll probably find that the saving this game uses isn't as bothersome.

Geo
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Postby Geo » Thu May 04, 2006 6:36 am

I gotta admit, that after the ordeal that was protecting the base (just past the demo levels, where you have sentry guns), and just barely surviving, I thought maybe the game would save after the very long ensuing cutscene. But I thought wrong. :cry: I can't believe I have to play through all that again. I'll hafta wait for an evening where I'm up to the ordeal Again. :P

I don't have a problem with the spawn system but if there was any way at all the game could be made to auto-save once or twice during a long mission (like just before or after one of the long cutscenes mid-mission), I would really welcome that.

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Aureoloss
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Postby Aureoloss » Thu May 04, 2006 8:55 pm

Geo wrote:I gotta admit, that after the ordeal that was protecting the base (just past the demo levels, where you have sentry guns), and just barely surviving, I thought maybe the game would save after the very long ensuing cutscene. But I thought wrong. :cry: I can't believe I have to play through all that again. I'll hafta wait for an evening where I'm up to the ordeal Again. :P

I don't have a problem with the spawn system but if there was any way at all the game could be made to auto-save once or twice during a long mission (like just before or after one of the long cutscenes mid-mission), I would really welcome that.


lol, i just put the sentry guns in front of the aliens and left, they kept attacking the guns until they got killed :D

Geo
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Postby Geo » Thu May 04, 2006 9:07 pm

I'll try that next go. Was it silly of me to assume the Sentry Guns weren't indestructible? :oops: :lol:

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jasper1988
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Postby jasper1988 » Mon May 08, 2006 4:52 pm

sorry for this newbish question, but if you take a break in mid game and exit the game, would you have to do the whole mission again from the save point, or can you just resume playing from where you took a break?
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fb_joel
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Postby fb_joel » Mon May 08, 2006 6:24 pm

jasper1988 wrote:sorry for this newbish question, but if you take a break in mid game and exit the game, would you have to do the whole mission again from the save point, or can you just resume playing from where you took a break?

You would have to do the whole mission from the beginning again.
// Joel, Frozenbyte team

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jasper1988
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Postby jasper1988 » Mon May 08, 2006 6:37 pm

then in my oppinion it would be a bit wise to put that in the game (next patch or so) because when there are über long missions and someone wants a break from all the aliëns and stuff and then has to keep playing because otherwise he/she would have to do the mission again
like here, me and my sister have to share the computer, so we have to switch every hour or so....
w00t w00t w00t w00t w00t w00t w00t w00t w00t

and by the way, finland owns!!!!

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Geo
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Postby Geo » Mon May 08, 2006 7:52 pm

FWIW, the game (at least on my system) behaves very well with alt-tabbing. That won't help probably if yer switching to another game. But if you need to take a break, do some Web surfing or check email for a while, you can probably leave your mechanic in a safe room somewhere and alt-tab out of the game. Then alt-tab when you want to pick up where you left off.

For sure though, I'd like to at least see the game save when you reach a cutscene point in a mission. Usually the first one is quite far into a mission, and it always seemed like a natural "checkpoint save" point to me. I hope that's doable as a patch but perhaps not. :?

ronny
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Postby ronny » Wed May 10, 2006 3:04 am

I would also like to say the no save game option is good, it makes you care about your guy..and it prevents you from just quicksaving before you go in a room knowing that if you get owned you can just reload and try a new strategy.

thats how noobs and sissys play. if you have to play the level over again from the beginning, it makes you think about what will work best and be the safest. i didnt take any chances 'cause you cant see very far.

honestly i never died one time in the entire game. and im not lying. not even at the end, i thought the boss was easy..

i havent played the hard difficulty levels yet, i've only played medium difficulty so far. but even on hard i bet i could do it without dying. ill do an experiment and see if its possible.

im not gonna bother playing easy mode because well, its easy mode..only sissys play easy mode :lol:

Geo
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Postby Geo » Wed May 10, 2006 3:17 am

Problem is, a lot of people in the gaming world are sissies and proud of it. And if the game being hardcore alienates a lot of people who might otherwise buy the game, that's not good for the game, the dev or the publisher. Even if it's good for You. :P

Having a quicksave, or some mid mission saves doesn't mean you have to use them if you're a confident "non-sissy." Just don't use them. But not having those leaves other people no options and turns off people who might buy the game otherwise.

I've learned to live with all that. I just sometimes find it a hassle to be locked into a mission for 2 hours without some way to save it mid mission so I can get some sleep or go to work. :P

step1
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Postby step1 » Wed May 10, 2006 4:18 am

ronny wrote:I would also like to say the no save game option is good, it makes you care about your guy..and it prevents you from just quicksaving before you go in a room knowing that if you get owned you can just reload and try a new strategy.

thats how noobs and sissys play. if you have to play the level over again from the beginning, it makes you think about what will work best and be the safest. i didnt take any chances 'cause you cant see very far.

honestly i never died one time in the entire game. and im not lying. not even at the end, i thought the boss was easy..

i havent played the hard difficulty levels yet, i've only played medium difficulty so far. but even on hard i bet i could do it without dying. ill do an experiment and see if its possible.

im not gonna bother playing easy mode because well, its easy mode..only sissys play easy mode :lol:

I have crashed several times just before it starts loading the next mission, thus all of my work through that level is lost, and I have to start all over again, now unless their is a patch that will fix the crashes that happens when I use a computer screen, or when it starts loading the next map then no, no quick saves is VERY bad. Nice game btw, I hope to see some mods for a such a rare and great genre soon.

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fb_joel
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Postby fb_joel » Wed May 10, 2006 12:54 pm

step1 wrote:I have crashed several times just before it starts loading the next mission, thus all of my work through that level is lost, and I have to start all over again, now unless their is a patch that will fix the crashes that happens when I use a computer screen, or when it starts loading the next map then no, no quick saves is VERY bad. Nice game btw, I hope to see some mods for a such a rare and great genre soon.

What kind of computers specs you have btw? We've been trying to track down the computer screen bug but it's almost impossible to replace on our computers... The other one sounds quite serious too. :?

Edit: We can re-evaluate the save system and see if something can be done. There might be a way to introduce a proper mid-level save point...
// Joel, Frozenbyte team

step1
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Postby step1 » Wed May 10, 2006 6:42 pm

fb_joel wrote:
step1 wrote:I have crashed several times just before it starts loading the next mission, thus all of my work through that level is lost, and I have to start all over again, now unless their is a patch that will fix the crashes that happens when I use a computer screen, or when it starts loading the next map then no, no quick saves is VERY bad. Nice game btw, I hope to see some mods for a such a rare and great genre soon.

What kind of computers specs you have btw? We've been trying to track down the computer screen bug but it's almost impossible to replace on our computers... The other one sounds quite serious too. :?

Edit: We can re-evaluate the save system and see if something can be done. There might be a way to introduce a proper mid-level save point...

Microsoft Windows XP Media Center Edition
AMD Athlon 64 Processor 3000+
1 GB of ram
Nvidia Geforce 6600 GT

Edit: We can re-evaluate the save system and see if something can be done. There might be a way to introduce a proper mid-level save point...
That would be nice. :)

ronny
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Postby ronny » Thu May 11, 2006 2:00 am

ya ok ok im just saying im fine with it the way it is, if they want to add save points or quicksaves thats cool i dont care one way or the other.

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fb_joel
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Postby fb_joel » Thu May 11, 2006 3:05 pm

step1 wrote:Microsoft Windows XP Media Center Edition
AMD Athlon 64 Processor 3000+
1 GB of ram
Nvidia Geforce 6600 GT

Thanks. It seems there is a certain group of people to whom the computer screens crash. I'm hoping that when we get enough system specs, we can see if there's some similarities and thus replace the problem...
// Joel, Frozenbyte team

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Hedgehog
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Postby Hedgehog » Thu May 11, 2006 3:29 pm

The only bad thing I see about the few save moments is that you finish the game relatively fast. You have to continue playing untill the save moment even when you would normally save and quit.


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