No LAN, no shadowgrounds

All discussion about Shadowgrounds.
Willi

No LAN, no shadowgrounds

Postby Willi » Tue Nov 01, 2005 7:50 pm

why ??
whywhywhy ?
why is there no coop mode for LANgaming ?
i wait for this game since months because i heard it has multiplayersupport, but now i see, there is only coop mode for playing on one machine.

yeah i am pissed off because i thought this would be a grate game, but now i will not buy it, and neither my friends...hotseat works only on console.



next hope: alienswarm @ source engine.

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fb_joel
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Postby fb_joel » Tue Nov 01, 2005 8:36 pm

We certainly understand how you and many others feel... but a couple of points:

1. We never promised multiplayer; there was very little time and everybody in the team sacrificed some free time to at least get co-op on the same computer.

2. LAN/Internet co-op/multiplayer takes a lot of time and effort (many months). There are many technical issues involved.

3. Shadowgrounds is still a great game. 8)
// Joel, Frozenbyte team

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Postby Guest » Tue Nov 01, 2005 9:25 pm

1. i read in a magazine that there is a coop (and LAN is standard today)

2. sure, but isn't it worth ? (what about an addon with LAN-coop ?)
serious sam was famous, not because of the SP part, because of the COOP mode in LAN

i'm sure this is a good game, but why should i buy it ?
i hate it when i everytime think "hey how cool would it be to play this on LANs with my friends"

do you know what makes a good movie better? when you can watch it with your friends and enjoy it together.

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Misacorp
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Postby Misacorp » Tue Nov 01, 2005 10:32 pm

Well somethings you just have to deal with, in this case NO LAN CO-OP! I'd rather have the game now and hope for an unlikely patch with Lan Co-op than wait 3 more months to get it. It's not us who decide what's going to be in the game, it's the development team. Sure they take suggestions but the final decision is up to them. Shadowgrounds was not planned to include ANY Co-op and when the news arrives that it will have co-op on the same machine the only thing people do is complain. This exact same thing happens on every single forum I go to since there are always some kids (or just immature people) who can't take matters as they are.

You can not do anything to get LAN Co-op into the official version of the game, it is not up to you.
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willi

Postby willi » Wed Nov 02, 2005 12:21 am

and what are you ?

the thing is, i waited with so many hope of this game and now i'm a little bit disappointed.
it makes for me no sense to release a coop game without LAN feature.


i think the game would have mor success with a LAN-function and when there are more ppl who say "hey this game needs LAN-support" there might be a chance that the developer decide to release an addon with LAN support.

i know that i can't change anything at the moment, but for the future.
and the only thing i want are good games, and i try my best to get it.



tell me one thing misacorp, you are the sort of ppl who say "i dont vote because it wouldn't change anything" ?

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Postby Dark » Wed Nov 02, 2005 12:37 am

Well fb_joel by now you all must be pretty frustrated at some of the comments flying around about the lack of LAN or Internet Coop play. As you stated you never did promise it but we sure had high hopes that you guys would put it in. Hot seating it is not that much fun and let me explain. For one each player on the screen reacts differently and will want to do things in their own way. with a hot seat option you cant do that and this was a very big annoyance with the latest X-men Legends 2 for the pc which gave us LAN and Internet play but guess what they made it so all of the players have to be on the same screen what you see on your pc is what I see on mine. If one player rotates the camera it rotates for everyone. It was to say the least a very big disappointment annoying as hell so now my game sits on the shelf because no one wants to play this type of locked down game. They want to free roam and do what they want. Trying to get to one side of the screen and kill and enemy while the other player is going off onto the other side to kill what he sees as an enemy just plain doesn’t work. the camera gets locked down and someone has to give in by playing the good little player and play follow the leader all over the place. Personally I’m hoping you all re think your position on this because you guys say you got a great game and it looks great but to put it simple most players want to play these type of games Cooperatively on a LAN or on the internet. The type of Coop play you all are giving us is nothing more then a console type feel and I didn’t by my pc to sit in front of it and make it act as a console.

- Rick

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Misacorp
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Postby Misacorp » Wed Nov 02, 2005 8:41 am

willi wrote:tell me one thing misacorp, you are the sort of ppl who say "i dont vote because it wouldn't change anything" ?


I've had much much experience on many game forums and one of the biggest lessons I've learned is that unless the development team sets up a vote, it is useless. If that happens, I will vote.
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Guest

Postby Guest » Wed Nov 02, 2005 10:14 am

i can say that a co-op with 2 peoples on the same computer is fun :D
i've played many games with the 2in1 computer co-op AND IT'S FUN.
so don't cry for some LAN game...

PS. suomalaiset rulaa

Roamer

Postby Roamer » Wed Nov 02, 2005 11:24 am

Yes, I hear what you are all saying, and I would certainly vote in favor of the co-operative gameplay be it LAN or TCP/IP.
However, I don't feel excessively disappointed being able to coop only on one machine. It seems retrospective in a way =)
At the same time, I am doing what I can to make this game a success, with a little hope in mind that the sell figures will some day deliver us an IP coop.
I have my bigscreen and beer ready for some serious coop whooping 8)

Regards
-Roamer-

Guest

Postby Guest » Wed Nov 02, 2005 1:48 pm

I know that the devs didn't promise anykind of coop, but they still managed to include the one computer coop because they worked hard. I have a total respect for the devs.

Although one computer coop is a very nice feature, it wasn't really what I was hoping for. I'm not blaming devs for not including online/lan coop. They did their best, I'm sure.

I think that the game looks great and I hope it sells much so in future it could get the "normal" coop. To me this game would shine with lan and online coop.

I may buy the game as it is, or I might wait until it gets the online coop(could be never). If it gets good reviews that would help.

Guest

Postby Guest » Wed Nov 02, 2005 6:00 pm

Well we going to bay the game only for Lan. But without Lan coop is the game for us useless :cry:

Guest

Postby Guest » Thu Nov 03, 2005 12:20 am

I dont understand that excuse that the devs didn't have time to do the co-op mode for lan usage. How many freaking years they coded this game? First they started with competely different game and changed it as the developement proceeded.

Would it have been so bad to push the deadline few months and complete coding of the real co-op mode like it should have been done. I don't think that anyone would have had anything against waiting few more months to have a real co-op mode in it.

It isn't so easy to success in game media. Why make it even more harder for your self and rush the release of an "unfinished" product. Too bad.

Guest

Postby Guest » Thu Nov 03, 2005 1:00 am

Anonymous wrote:It isn't so easy to success in game media. Why make it even more harder for your self and rush the release of an "unfinished" product. Too bad.


I think that the devs weren't even thinking about coop when they were planning and making the game. It came surprise to them when community started to ask for the coop(so they decided to add it in its simplest form). So it was not unfinished, just poorly planned project(regarding how to advertise the game and making it wanted, features and marketing). It's like the devs weren't quite sure what the game would be when it was finished, lack of vision. But of course this is normal since they are new in gamemaking. They have much more experience now.

I think the devs though this project as a test of what they are able to do. They said themselves that they now regret to have lower price to the game because the game ended up being very good. So maybe they underestimated their ability to create a quality game.

I'm just speculating, I don't know anything for sure.

Guest

Postby Guest » Thu Nov 03, 2005 1:04 am

Anonymous wrote:It isn't so easy to success in game media. Why make it even more harder for your self and rush the release of an "unfinished" product. Too bad.


I think that the devs weren't even thinking about coop when they were planning and making the game. It came surprise to them when community started to ask for the coop(so they decided to add it in its simplest form). So it was not unfinished, just poorly planned project(regarding how to advertise the game and making it wanted, features and marketing). It's like the devs weren't quite sure what the game would be when it was finished, lack of vision. But of course this is normal since they are new in gamemaking. They have much more experience now.

I think the devs though this project as a test of what they are able to do. They said themselves that they now regret to have lower price to the game because the game ended up being very good. So maybe they underestimated their ability to create a quality game.

I'm just speculating, I don't know anything for sure.

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Misacorp
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Postby Misacorp » Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:29 pm

Some people are just too dumb...

1. Preygrounds was the original name but it was changed, nothing happened to the game itself.

2. There was not going to be ANY Co-op until like... 2 weeks ago when it was announced.

I'm beginning to get sick of this stuff.

Example: People were waiting very desperately for the new Halo 2 maps and when they were finally announced people started whining about them costing AT START like... 5€ and eventually they would become free. It's amazing how people just can't accept things how they are. At that time the Xbox.com forums were full of people complaining and insultin Bungie for the small cost of the maps.

The same thing goes here. Co-op was never promised and now I think it should not have been announced at all because you just can't stand the fact that THERE WILL NOT BE AN ONLINE CO O AND YOU CAN NOT DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT. It takes months to build it and months to test it. Whining about it does not help. The meassage that you are dissapointed has already been made very clear. I think only myself and Qraft are the only people that understand this and don't bother wasting our energy on whining. Hmm... why the heck am I writing this now. I'll just let you whine about it and just wait for the game to come out....
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Postby trashi » Thu Nov 03, 2005 3:57 pm

YEAH! Shadowgrounds will rule!!!

You know what: I will buy this game just because of the one-screen-coop-mode!

I just can´t wait to meet my best buddy and explore the maps whole night, kill aliens, fight about health-packs and ammo ("Hey, it´s mine, you silly bastard!!!" :wink: ) while drinking ice-cooled coke and eating pizza ("Keep your greasy fingers away from my alien...!!!")!

Just like the good old "Alien Breed"- times!!!

Certainly it means you have to have some friends around, shouldn´t be a problem, should it?

If there ever will be a LAN- mode supported: great!!! Anyway, until then: good night, good fight!!!

trashi
Carpe noctem!

willi

Postby willi » Thu Nov 03, 2005 9:14 pm

Misacorp wrote:Some people are just too dumb...

1. Preygrounds was the original name but it was changed, nothing happened to the game itself.

2. There was not going to be ANY Co-op until like... 2 weeks ago when it was announced.

I'm beginning to get sick of this stuff.

Example: People were waiting very desperately for the new Halo 2 maps and when they were finally announced people started whining about them costing AT START like... 5€ and eventually they would become free. It's amazing how people just can't accept things how they are. At that time the Xbox.com forums were full of people complaining and insultin Bungie for the small cost of the maps.

The same thing goes here. Co-op was never promised and now I think it should not have been announced at all because you just can't stand the fact that THERE WILL NOT BE AN ONLINE CO O AND YOU CAN NOT DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT. It takes months to build it and months to test it. Whining about it does not help. The meassage that you are dissapointed has already been made very clear. I think only myself and Qraft are the only people that understand this and don't bother wasting our energy on whining. Hmm... why the heck am I writing this now. I'll just let you whine about it and just wait for the game to come out....



:roll:

you rule, with this arguments wie dont need anymore the LAW, because, when somebody kill someone, it just happen, we cant change it anymore, we have to accept that the person is dead. right :?:


i hope you got that.

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Misacorp
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Postby Misacorp » Fri Nov 04, 2005 12:13 am

Ehh... I decided I'm not gonna argue about this anymoe BUT I hope you do understand the fact that what people do on the internet is not the same as you do in real life. You can kill a person on the internet in a game but if you're mentally stable, you wont do it in real life.

I'm off this topic.

When's the new trailer coming out?
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man man man

shit, how much will there be?

Postby man man man » Fri Nov 04, 2005 5:18 pm

why dont they release? 4.11.? 5.11. now? tomorrow its 6.11.? paa!! shit! dont talk about it anymore, til its released! fuck!

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Postby Arparso » Sat Nov 05, 2005 3:53 pm

I don't get it... the devs work hard to at least get some sort of Coop into the game and you can't stop complaining about not being able to play online or via LAN? What's the point? Delay the game a few months more while asking the publishers to please give more money, so that a new feature can be build, although the game is perfectly finished already?

I really don't get it...

As for me, I'll continue now playing Coop with my buddy (bought the game yesterday) and you know what? It's awesome! Didn't have such great coop sessions since the release of "Hunter: The Reckoning" on Xbox.

PS: If you want Shadowgrounds-Style coop gameplay online, then go buy UT2004 and get the mod "Alien Swarm". Personally, I only play it in LAN, because online play always is just so clinical... I really like to know the guys in person, I'm playing coop with - so basically Shadowgrounds is ideal for me. ;)

willi

Postby willi » Sun Nov 06, 2005 9:01 pm

why do you think we own the devs something because they added with hard work a coop mode ?

WE are the consumers....but some ppl and even the devs dont see that.



anyway, i orderd the game alreay, for this low price it's ok to have no LAN-Coop, but i will even miss it.

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Postby Quu » Mon Nov 07, 2005 1:34 am

Dark wrote:Well fb_joel by now you all must be pretty frustrated at some of the comments flying around about the lack of LAN or Internet Coop play. As you stated you never did promise it but we sure had high hopes that you guys would put it in.


You're right, they didn't promise LAN, so there is no reason to get pissed about that there isn't something that they didn't promise.
I appreciate the sacrifice they've done to even get somekind of a multiplayer/co-op.

EDIT: Ok, i now read the post of Dark all the way and came up with couple other things: Dark complained about shitty multiplayer in some X-Men game. So what?
That the devs of that game made a stinking piece of shit they call multiplayer doesn't mean that the co-op of Shadowgrounds has those same limitations... There are many ways of doing things, y' know?
Some free games from way back worked fokkin' well on the same screen, like: Cyberdogs, Tapan Kaikki and Wings for example.
Those games had none of the limitations mentioned in that X-Men game.
Some ppl make games which equals to shit and other don't, that's the way it is.

Point 1000000:
Since this game is a little backstep (don't get me wrong now) - i mean historical backstep - of where are the games going nowadays. Co-op just fits like a small glove to a big hand to a game like this: top-down straight shooter.
There's nothing better than kicking some alien ass with your friend and sharing the good events in the game.

fb_joel: Can that other player in the co-op mode set-up the game pad for his own likings?
And other thing: There aren't too many controls in the game, are they?
Aina ei voi voittaa... Ei edes joka kerta.

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Postby Arparso » Mon Nov 07, 2005 2:40 am

Quu wrote:fb_joel: Can that other player in the co-op mode set-up the game pad for his own likings?
And other thing: There aren't too many controls in the game, are they?

Though I wasn't the one being asked for it, let me answer your questions:

You can set up about 10 different player profiles, which all can have their own control scheme and savegames. It really just takes a moment to setup the controls for your coop buddy, no problem there.

As for the controls: You don't need too much buttons, but a standard PS2- or Xbox-style pad is definitely recommendable. One analog stick for movement, another one for aiming, 2 fire buttons (primary/secondary), a reload button (although there's still auto-reload), a "use" button, max. 2 buttons for weapon switching and at least 1 button to open the map/objectives/upgrades screens. There's also a button for "rolling over the floor", but I don't fint it very useful yet. No point in rolling away, if you can blast that sucker to hell instead! :D

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Postby fb_joel » Mon Nov 07, 2005 2:04 pm

Quu wrote:
Dark wrote:like: Cyberdogs

One of my alltime favorite small games, btw. We played it a lot with my friend(s), and partly because of that experience, I think today's gamers will enjoy Shadowgrounds co-op.

And thanks to Asparso for the config explanation.
// Joel, Frozenbyte team

Bandit

No LAN?

Postby Bandit » Mon Nov 07, 2005 3:02 pm

Oh no. How sad. I was looking forward to playing coop. But without a LAN support i wont buy the game.


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