Does Shadowgrounds use DirectSound3D or OpenAL?

Technical support for the Linux and Mac platforms for Shadowgrounds and Shadowgrounds Survivor.
sotgr
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Does Shadowgrounds use DirectSound3D or OpenAL?

Postby sotgr » Thu Apr 14, 2011 5:25 pm

Hello,

Does Shadowgrounds and Shadowgrounds Survivor use DirectSound3D or OpenAL?

I'm just interested since DirectSound3D doesn't work anymore on Vista/7 without workarounds.

Edit: Also would appreciate the answer to your other games too conveniently at the same time :)

sotgr
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Re: Does Shadowgrounds use DirectSound3D or OpenAL?

Postby sotgr » Fri Apr 15, 2011 2:41 pm

OK, I have figured out that Trine and Shadowgrounds use DS3D but I've been thinking about buying your Humble Bundle so I'd like to know does Jack Claw and Splot use DS3D? :?:

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Mr. ShadowStealer
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Re: Does Shadowgrounds use DirectSound3D or OpenAL?

Postby Mr. ShadowStealer » Fri Apr 15, 2011 8:04 pm

They most likely use the DS3D too because Jack Claw is earlier game than Trine (if I have gathered correct info and remember correctly) so it is logical that if Shadowgrounds uses DS3D and Trine uses it too then very likely Jack Claw between those two games uses it too.

And so most likely splot uses too because they are already familiar with it and there's more support for DS3D thatn OpenAL.

And if the DirectSound3D isn't working on your computer then I would just suggest you to download a DirectX uninstaller and completely reinstall your DirectX and maybe even do the same to your sound card drivers because DirectSound in general is always related to DirectX.
Not all of you have äää's and ööö's :P

sotgr
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Re: Does Shadowgrounds use DirectSound3D or OpenAL?

Postby sotgr » Sat Apr 16, 2011 6:42 pm

Mr. ShadowStealer wrote:They most likely use the DS3D too because Jack Claw is earlier game than Trine (if I have gathered correct info and remember correctly) so it is logical that if Shadowgrounds uses DS3D and Trine uses it too then very likely Jack Claw between those two games uses it too.

And so most likely splot uses too because they are already familiar with it and there's more support for DS3D thatn OpenAL.

And if the DirectSound3D isn't working on your computer then I would just suggest you to download a DirectX uninstaller and completely reinstall your DirectX and maybe even do the same to your sound card drivers because DirectSound in general is always related to DirectX.


DS3D isn't supported anymore in Windows Vista/7 (and of course not in OSX/Linux either) because Microsoft removed HAL from Windows. I hope they will move on to OpenAL in their future games due to the fact that DS3D is deprecated and isn't cross-platform.

And still I would like an official confirmation about Jack Claw and Splot please.

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fb_joel
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Re: Does Shadowgrounds use DirectSound3D or OpenAL?

Postby fb_joel » Sat Apr 16, 2011 11:32 pm

Shadowgrounds, Shadowgrounds Survivor, Jack Claw and Trine all use DirectSound3D (I believe) and FMOD 3.7.5.0 middleware (well could be earlier versions for the SG games).

Not sure what Trine 2 uses under the hood but we use Wwise middleware for the game. Splot will probably use something else entirely, something custom. It's for Windows/Mac/Linux and iOS and possibly Android so we use something that suits that.

I may be a bit clueless on these to be honest, I was sort of thinking that DirectSound3D or something similar handles all hardware output and the middleware just outputs to it. I guess I've got it somehow wrong. However, I don't quite understand the problem... All of the games work just fine in Windows 7. Have you tried the games on Windows 7 and is there a problem with the sounds?
// Joel, Frozenbyte team

sotgr
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Re: Does Shadowgrounds use DirectSound3D or OpenAL?

Postby sotgr » Thu Apr 21, 2011 9:17 pm

fb_joel wrote:Shadowgrounds, Shadowgrounds Survivor, Jack Claw and Trine all use DirectSound3D (I believe) and FMOD 3.7.5.0 middleware (well could be earlier versions for the SG games).

Not sure what Trine 2 uses under the hood but we use Wwise middleware for the game. Splot will probably use something else entirely, something custom. It's for Windows/Mac/Linux and iOS and possibly Android so we use something that suits that.

I may be a bit clueless on these to be honest, I was sort of thinking that DirectSound3D or something similar handles all hardware output and the middleware just outputs to it. I guess I've got it somehow wrong. However, I don't quite understand the problem... All of the games work just fine in Windows 7. Have you tried the games on Windows 7 and is there a problem with the sounds?


Yes, the sounds work fine if you consider fine to be that there is at least some sound coming from the speakers. :roll:

The difference between DS3D and OpenAL is that DS3D is supported only in Windows XP and OpenAL being supported in XP, Vista, 7, OSX and Linux. (Some other platforms too)

There are two types of sound mixing, in Software and in Hardware, of course hardware accelerated audio is much better and sounds a lot better. The problem is that since you use DS3D, there is no support for hardware acceleration in Vista/7, OSX and Linux, only in XP. So the mixing has to be done on these other systems in software since there is no support for DS3D. So there is no 3D sound, no EAX etc.

OpenAL is crossplatform and is supported in all of these OS's, XP, Vista, 7, OSX and Linux.

But for Vista/7 there are workarounds, one of them is ALchemy by Creative which I myself use too. It tries to its best translate the DS3D calls the game is making to the hardware to OpenAL calls so that the audio would be hardware accelerated. Of course it isnt perfect, uses unnecessary cpu time and results often in small problems/glitches and every game is different and sometimes there has to be done a lot of tweaking to get the sound right and sometimes it doesnt work at all.

Since I moved from XP to Win7 I have used ALchemy with your games and it brings the beautiful 3D sound spatialization back and the games sound a lot better since they use my audio hardware to do the job.

So if you want hardware accelerated sound which means support for multichannel/surround, positional audio (sound coming from where the source is located in the gameworld), EAX environmental effects etc. in all of these operating systems, you need to use OpenAL.

So I really do hope that you will move from DS3D to OpenAL.

English isnt my first language and I am no expert with these, my knowledge is limited to me knowing only these basic things, so Im sorry if the explanation is bad :roll:

Here are somekind of explanation of the thing I quickly found by googling:
http://www.creative.com/soundblaster/alchemy/
http://connect.creativelabs.com/alchemy/default.aspx
http://connect.creativelabs.com/openal/ ... 84%A2.aspx

sotgr
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Re: Does Shadowgrounds use DirectSound3D or OpenAL?

Postby sotgr » Fri Apr 22, 2011 1:27 am

I threw a short video together to show the difference of when using ALchemy when I play Trine compared to the default sound people will get (which they shouldnt get) without tinkering with workarounds: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLsiGO3f324

I'm not sure if you need to use headphones to properly hear the difference since my configuration was for them.

So you can see how even a quite simple platformer like Trine benefits from proper audio and 3d spatialization, it just simply sounds so much better.

Also I will take this opportunity to remind that since you seem to start releasing games crossplatfrom how important it is to support proper sound also on OSX/Linux where there isnt workarounds such as ALchemy available at all.


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