Suggestions

For discussion about Trine 2, released in December 2011 on Windows, Mac, Xbox, PlayStation Network and later on Linux and Wii U.
orunin
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Suggestions

Postby orunin » Sat Jun 19, 2010 2:56 am

Skill inhibitors
Mainly only for harder difficulties or special game modes, some magical presence that prevents characters from casting certain spells would make some puzzles more difficult and interesting. An example would be to inhibit levitate, so you have to rely on moves like the warrior's throw. Maybe they could disable a random spell so the way you solve a puzzle is different every time. That way the game can be played as diversely as this trailer which I'm guessing something you guys are aiming for.

Online leaderboards
Similar to what has been done in Mirror's Edge + RE5, an online time trial leaderboard would be fun and would definitely encourage multiple playthroughs. (btw someone and I collaborated on a speed run for trine 1: 22'52")

This is just wishful thinking but having a closed beta test would be great :lol: The constructive criticism from Trine 1 seems to have helped Trine 2 IMMENSELY and who knows what a little extra feedback can do.

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FB_Lauri
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Re: Suggestions

Postby FB_Lauri » Sat Jun 19, 2010 11:06 pm

Thanks, indeed something worth considering for us.

While there isn't immediate plans to prevent certain spells at some points, we do have added skills to thief and knight which are suitable for puzzle solving, and we have also designed many puzzles to support the clever use of all characters, not just wizard's spells.

In general our goal is to have many puzzles to be solvable with all characters, and while wizard is still key character in some puzzles, other puzzles may be very hard to be solved with wizard, or at least with wizard only.

Once game is a bit more ready we will begin user tests, and this time we have planned to do them a lot more than what we did with Trine 1. User tests will be done at least at our office, but a closed beta isn't completely ruled out either.

DarkJee
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Re: Suggestions

Postby DarkJee » Mon Jun 21, 2010 2:30 am

Nice thing would be some kind of "Challenge mode" featuring like.. original levels but with constraints like "finish the whole level only with the knight" (or thief or wizard).. you know like.. something easy to implement without adding too much complicated stuff..

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Kein
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Re: Suggestions

Postby Kein » Mon Jun 21, 2010 6:19 pm

LEVEL EDITOR

"Nuff said".

Rahabib
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Re: Suggestions

Postby Rahabib » Mon Jun 21, 2010 11:34 pm

Kein wrote:LEVEL EDITOR

"Nuff said".


ditto :P

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zeeZ
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Re: Requests

Postby zeeZ » Wed Jun 23, 2010 7:58 pm

Release more high resolution artwork!



Edit (and I didn't search the forums for this since this technically isn't a new post :D):
TLDR: Game manual! Inform about new machanics!

When I watched some playthroughs I noticed that a lot of players missed "basic" stuff like the knight's grab and charge, and it even took them a while to figure out how to use levers (or that they CAN use them at all). They also left items on the characters they picked them up with, which was pretty random and not all that useful.

I think that's because they didn't actually notice the little text down the screen that gave them some info now and then. Even I missed the charge for a good while.

My suggestion would be to interrupt gameplay to introduce new machanics. Freeze the game (so that shouldn't be placed where you're likely to miss it due to a random button mashing situation) and give the player a window that teaches them about the new stuff they can do. Maybe even with a little video. So for example you walk down a straight and a window pops up, saying "Your Knight can now charge! Use the [button] button to charge towards the enemy and finish them off with a brutal kick." with a short example video loop of the skill in motion (knight running towards skeleton and kicking them off screen).

There weren't too many new skills, so I don't think it would have been too disruptive.

Same goes for treasure. Every time I opened a chest I would pause the game and go to the inventory to see what this new thing does anyway, so a popup with the item's effect (and a hint on who should use it) would also work there. Maybe people were just pr0 and played with their monitors off, but it took them like 10 minutes to notice that their wizard could conjure bridges now ("wait, what? when did that happen?")

I even saw someone never realize you could stick stuff in spikes!

Another Idea: "Game manual" main (and pause!) menu option! Filled with character information and background, skill they can do (gradually unlocked perhaps?) and other useful hints ("Did you know you can stick boxes to spikes? You could stick a wooden box to the ceiling and swing across a gap!")
\tpun
(pun indented)

ledomira
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Re: Suggestions

Postby ledomira » Thu Jun 24, 2010 4:40 am

The only thing I didn't like about Trine was the Hud. I don't need huds in games and I turn them off if I have the choice. I feel they take away from the immersion factor.

If you decide to use a hud in Trine 2, please give an option to disable it. It shouldn't be any harder than binding a button to the hide hud command that already exists in the game.

FYI, I'm playing the PS3 version of Trine and would buy Trine 2 for the PS3 or xbox 360.

Along the same line, is there a way to turn off the hud in Trine now (for PS3)?

Rahabib
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Re: Requests

Postby Rahabib » Thu Jun 24, 2010 5:46 pm

a game menu with more info and manual built in would be helpful. When I played I never understood the character info to level up, I just clicked around until something happened. I also didn't know the thief could jump off walls until after I beat the game. Although secret skills and such are nice - it would also be nice to have a heads up that there are secret skills to find in the first place.

DarkJee
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Re: Suggestions

Postby DarkJee » Sun Jul 11, 2010 11:19 pm

Would be cool if at the end of a level, there would be statistics, like.. time spent on the level, number of kills from player 1/2/3, how many time player 1/2/3 died. Some statistics that could enhance "competition" though its a co-op game, it could be nice :)

Herbert
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Re: Suggestions

Postby Herbert » Wed Jul 14, 2010 8:05 pm

On the teaser picure it says local multiplayer is still included. I hope you don't drop the support for multiple keyboards and mice, although there have been many nasty problems. I really enjoy playing the game with my friends on my full HD projector. No console or whatsoever at this time can beat the incredible quality of graphic and gameplay. Trine seems to be the only well done game with this amazing coop-feature. My suggestions on this topic for Trine 2 are
1) Include information with more technical details about how the detection of input devices works. It won't help against the kids who don't like reading, but I (considering myself an adult player) would like to know what the game is trying to do so I can help. By now setting up the controllers always took some tinkering up to half an hour, but we always had a funny evening.
2a) Make grouping devices by hardware connection possible. I don't know how the support for multiple devices works right now, but it seems you are querying the os (leaving the enumeration to Windows) for the available devices and use them as they are presented. I think it would be cool if the devices would be paired by the USB-hub they are attatched to. This way each player would have "his" hub he can connect his mouse and keyboard to. PS/2-devices would be their own class, all devices on the root hub could fall back to the current behaviour.
-or-
2b) Show a screen of the detected devices making manual selection and grouping possible in the launcher. This way the user can see whenever his media keys act like another keyboard or the notebooks nipple-thingy interferes with the other mice.

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Lelldorianx
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Re: Suggestions

Postby Lelldorianx » Wed Jul 14, 2010 9:17 pm

I think we all agree that some sort of time trial mode needs to be added. It's simply not as fun posting our level times on the forums, would be way more competitive to have it built into the game :) Time trials are a core platformer element, after all!

P.S. LEVEL EDITOR / Internet Multiplayer :twisted:

ZachCraft
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Re: Suggestions

Postby ZachCraft » Fri Jul 16, 2010 3:27 pm

Combined US-EU servers so that I can play with my buddy in Finland :-D

SirDrago
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Re: Suggestions

Postby SirDrago » Fri Jul 16, 2010 7:02 pm

My biggest suggestion is to have much more different types of enemies. I think thats the biggest thing i didnt like about Trine. Skeletons....... more skeletons..... AAAAHHHHH.

Some endbosses would be awesome too. Like at the end of every 4th or 5th level.

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Lelldorianx
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Re: Suggestions

Postby Lelldorianx » Sun Jul 18, 2010 11:33 pm

@Sir-Drago - if the trailer and website are any indication, it looks like we may be getting our wish for more monsters (or at least new environs... yay for big bouncy mushrooms!) :mrgreen:

jamesdude24
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Re: Suggestions

Postby jamesdude24 » Thu Jul 22, 2010 12:22 am

A small problem I had with the first game was that the game didn't pause when in the inventory menu.

Emil12345558
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Re: Suggestions

Postby Emil12345558 » Sat Oct 23, 2010 9:10 pm

1) Backtracking
Keep the "Backtracking is optional" policy.
Also, if you put collectibles (such as experience bottles), that are inaccessible without an as-of-yet ungained power (which I don't think you ever did in Trine1), please make it visible, thar they're off-limits.

2) Character mortality
Please find a replacement for the infinite lives/no enemy respawn system. It promoted repetition rather than skill.
F. ex: Have the player(s) restart the level if he/she/they die too many times before reaching a new checkpoint (don't let them save up lives, though).

3) Energy limits
No reason for abilities to consume energy/mana, unless there's a limit to lives as well.

4) Water
No underwater parts, unless you move as fast and see as well as on land.

5) Leveling-up
Don't reward searching for collectibles or killing enemies with even further power. (And if you need to, don't give the items vague effects).
Or just counter-balance it: Increase level of enemies and add/strengthen obstacles with every level-up, and put an inescapable drawback on every item. If done correctly, that could improve replayability even further, by making the old levels grow with your character!

6) Foreground
Don't hide collectibles behind the foreground, and don't make large pieces of foreground for the enemies to hide behind.

7) Hammer
Don't remove the hammer! It's one of the best weapons I've ever used in a game! It is such a joy to crush skeletons with it!!
Also, please make the buttons react to being hit with the hammer - even though it probablywon't affect gameplay.

8) Collision
Somehow make the damage suffered for (characters and enemies alike) colliding with arrows, spikes, spiky balls, etc. relative to the impact between the danger and the victim (so that arrow spam becomes uneffective, and walking slowly into/pushing a spiky ball won't hurt you at all).

9) Premise
Combine platforming, physics puzzles and combat even further!

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FB_Lauri
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Re: Suggestions

Postby FB_Lauri » Sun Oct 24, 2010 11:00 pm

Thanks everyone for very good suggestions, most of these have been or will be addressed.

Below are my comments to some of the suggestions:

zeeZ wrote:Another Idea: "Game manual" main (and pause!) menu option! Filled with character information and background, skill they can do (gradually unlocked perhaps?) and other useful hints ("Did you know you can stick boxes to spikes? You could stick a wooden box to the ceiling and swing across a gap!")


There will be a clear help/controls page available in the pause and in the main menu throughout the game, so if player's happen to miss our tooltips when they gain abilities they can check from the help page.

ledomira wrote:If you decide to use a hud in Trine 2, please give an option to disable it. It shouldn't be any harder than binding a button to the hide hud command that already exists in the game.


I'll see if we can include option for this. The only problem is that if player for some reason accidentally disables the HUD it will be a huge problem.

DarkJee wrote:Would be cool if at the end of a level, there would be statistics, like.. time spent on the level, number of kills from player 1/2/3, how many time player 1/2/3 died. Some statistics that could enhance "competition" though its a co-op game, it could be nice


Lelldorianx wrote:I think we all agree that some sort of time trial mode needs to be added. It's simply not as fun posting our level times on the forums, would be way more competitive to have it built into the game :) Time trials are a core platformer element, after all!


We have to look into ways of doing this without destroying immersion. One possibility could be to have statistics accessible from the pause menu, which would also allow us to give more detailed statistics.

ZachCraft wrote:Combined US-EU servers so that I can play with my buddy in Finland


Technically the multiplayer is p2p (no play servers, only matchmakin servers) so I'd suppose anyone can play with anyone. However, I'm not 100% sure how different platforms handle their matchmaking.

SirDrago wrote:My biggest suggestion is to have much more different types of enemies. I think thats the biggest thing i didnt like about Trine. Skeletons....... more skeletons..... AAAAHHHHH.


And that's also one of our biggest improvements: a lot more enemy variety :D

jamesdude24 wrote:A small problem I had with the first game was that the game didn't pause when in the inventory menu.


We'll fix this. Of course for online co-op it will still go unpaused, but at least in single-player and in local co-op it will pause for both upgrade and pause menu.

Emil12345558 wrote:1) Backtracking
Keep the "Backtracking is optional" policy.
Also, if you put collectibles (such as experience bottles), that are inaccessible without an as-of-yet ungained power (which I don't think you ever did in Trine1), please make it visible, thar they're off-limits.


All collectibles are possible to get in single player at first playthrough, so backtracking is indeed optional. However, there are some very hard or very well hidden collectibles which may be easier to get with backtracking or when playing co-op.

Emil12345558 wrote:2) Character mortality
Please find a replacement for the infinite lives/no enemy respawn system. It promoted repetition rather than skill.
F. ex: Have the player(s) restart the level if he/she/they die too many times before reaching a new checkpoint (don't let them save up lives, though).


For Trine 2 we will have a save system together with a "load from last checkpoint" and "restart level". So now if you die the game loads last checkpoint with enemies and everything rather than tossing you back to the last checkpoint with all enemies killed. Technically it's a free save system, but in the other hand we don't want players to save every other second, so we have to explore option to save freely where ever.

Emil12345558 wrote:3) Energy limits
No reason for abilities to consume energy/mana, unless there's a limit to lives as well.


I agree, and we have removed mana completely from Trine 2 to get rid of boring mechanics and/or showstoppers.

Emil12345558 wrote:4) Water
No underwater parts, unless you move as fast and see as well as on land.


I agree with water, it never should be the most annoying part of the game. For Trine 2 we will keep water scenes to minimu, and where is, we will keep swimming speed equal to other movement (or even better! :D). However, I'd guess that our artists will require some sort of effect for the water, but maybe we can reduce unfair spikes in the water then ... 8)

Emil12345558 wrote:5) Leveling-up
Don't reward searching for collectibles or killing enemies with even further power. (And if you need to, don't give the items vague effects). Or just counter-balance it: Increase level of enemies and add/strengthen obstacles with every level-up, and put an inescapable drawback on every item. If done correctly, that could improve replayability even further, by making the old levels grow with your character!


For Trine 2 we have replaced the item system with far more rewarding upgrade system. For enemies, they now come only from the main path and in a clear, well-planned fight scenes, so no-one should miss any experience by passing enemies.

Emil12345558 wrote:6) Foreground
Don't hide collectibles behind the foreground, and don't make large pieces of foreground for the enemies to hide behind.


Yeah, we have learned a lesson here and have paid great attention to keep the play area visible everywhere.

Emil12345558 wrote:7) Hammer
Don't remove the hammer! It's one of the best weapons I've ever used in a game! It is such a joy to crush skeletons with it!!
Also, please make the buttons react to being hit with the hammer - even though it probablywon't affect gameplay.


Hammer will be there, and in fact the Knight will get also ability to throw the hammer to further increase the fun! 8)

Emil12345558 wrote:8) Collision
Somehow make the damage suffered for (characters and enemies alike) colliding with arrows, spikes, spiky balls, etc. relative to the impact between the danger and the victim (so that arrow spam becomes uneffective, and walking slowly into/pushing a spiky ball won't hurt you at all).


Good idea, I have to investigate this with our programmers! It's likely that we won't reduce damage enemies get from player attacks, but only damage player gets from soft-touching spikes. (we can and will still encourage other than arrow spam play style :))

Emil12345558 wrote:9) Premise
Combine platforming, physics puzzles and combat even further!


Our goal is to have everything bigger, better and way more fun in Trine 2, I suppose that's the same thing 8)

Emil12345558
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Re: Suggestions

Postby Emil12345558 » Mon Oct 25, 2010 5:41 pm

It all sounds very nice :D

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Kein
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Re: Suggestions

Postby Kein » Mon Oct 25, 2010 6:13 pm

Guess, it's a bit late already, since everything is almost done but oh well...

1. Non-linear gameplay. I remember from Trine 1 that there was a lot of locations of the map which was unaccessible. It's a shame. Would be nice to be able to choose which path you want to go - thru Cemetery or thru some dungeon.

2. Optional mini-bosses on some levels?

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FB_Lauri
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Re: Suggestions

Postby FB_Lauri » Mon Oct 25, 2010 6:50 pm

Kein wrote:Guess, it's a bit late already, since everything is almost done but oh well...


For major changes yes, for smaller ideas not at all! :D

Kein wrote:1. Non-linear gameplay. I remember from Trine 1 that there was a lot of locations of the map which was unaccessible. It's a shame. Would be nice to be able to choose which path you want to go - thru Cemetery or thru some dungeon.


Unfortunately this would mean major changes, so we'll stick to "linear" level progression, but of course inside the levels the options are endless! :)

Kein wrote:2. Optional mini-bosses on some levels?


8)

ChrisLeBrave
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Re: Suggestions

Postby ChrisLeBrave » Sun Oct 31, 2010 1:05 am

Hi,

1) Congratulation
Trine 1 is the best coop game ever made. Good job Frozenbyte.

2) Suggestions
Zoya and Amadeus can now jump on Pontius shield.
Pontius can throw in air teammate who stand up on his shield.
My friends never wanted to do box+teammate throw in Trine 1 (too long to execute).

Zoya can hook a teammate to help him climb or save him when he falls.
Zoya can pull box or other thing with her hook.
Zoya can burn enemies with fire arrows.

Each character has a different speed.
Zoya speeder than Pontius speeder than Amadeus.

Chris (sry for my poor english)

Emil12345558
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Re: Suggestions

Postby Emil12345558 » Mon Nov 01, 2010 5:54 pm

Why on earth would you want the characters to have different speeds?

ChrisLeBrave
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Re: Suggestions

Postby ChrisLeBrave » Mon Nov 01, 2010 11:20 pm

If Amadeus is slower than other character, he relies more on teammate to survive.
So it deserve teamplay.

My suggestions for Trine 2 resume in one word :
increase TEAMPLAY between characters = increase the fun

What do u think of my other suggestions (shield and hook)???

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FB_Lauri
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Re: Suggestions

Postby FB_Lauri » Tue Nov 02, 2010 12:15 am

ChrisLeBrave wrote:Zoya and Amadeus can now jump on Pontius shield.


This is actually planned to be included in the game in co-op, so it's a very good suggestion! :D

Emil12345558
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Re: Suggestions

Postby Emil12345558 » Tue Nov 02, 2010 9:30 pm

If one character is slower than the others, that means the other players will have to WAIT for him.

Anyway, for the Thief to be able to pull objects just sounds like downgrade of what the Wizard can already do.

Now, in T1 the Wizard could manipulate objects freely, but couldn't put speed into them (apart from dropping them from high up). The Knight could only throw objects around, but did it with enough speed that they blasted right through enemies even with a horizontal throw.
If the Thief needs a physics power, it should be one that doesn't overlap completely with either of the other characters' powers.


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