Trine PC Priced at $40?

For discussion about Trine, firstly released in 2009 for Windows and on PlayStation Network.
SirDrago
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Re: Trine PC Priced at $40?

Postby SirDrago » Tue Jun 30, 2009 12:55 am

Araris wrote:Also, what's with Europeans complaining about the dollar/euro conversion? You aren't getting paid in dollars, you get paid in euros. I'd care if you got paid in dollars and had to convert into Euros but I don't think that's how it works here on Earth. I don't go to a store, see a $50 game and say to myself, "Geez, €36 is a steal, I better buy it!".


Dude think! The companies make more money out of Europeans because the money is worth more. So you get it cheaper. Your game prices should be actually higher.

Araris
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Re: Trine PC Priced at $40?

Postby Araris » Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:00 am

SirDrago wrote:
Araris wrote:Also, what's with Europeans complaining about the dollar/euro conversion? You aren't getting paid in dollars, you get paid in euros. I'd care if you got paid in dollars and had to convert into Euros but I don't think that's how it works here on Earth. I don't go to a store, see a $50 game and say to myself, "Geez, €36 is a steal, I better buy it!".


Dude think! The companies make more money out of Europeans because the money is worth more. So you get it cheaper. Your game prices should be actually higher.


I have no doubt they make more money out of Europe, but until Europe is as large an electronic market as the US nothing will change. So because you have a stronger currency our prices should be raised? I'd think you'd be pushing more for Europe's prices should be lowered.

Thowky
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Re: Trine PC Priced at $40?

Postby Thowky » Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:03 am

Araris wrote:
SGR wrote:I won't buy it. At least not now. I don't like the dollar/euro conversion (yeah, euro is the real price, poor u.s., economy crysis, jaddajadda), I don't think it's fair that the console version is much cheaper, I just feel like we, the euro PC gamer, are the cash cow in this game.
I really like the design of the game an will buy it eventually, but not for the full price.


Euro is the real price? No, the US has a larger "various forms of electronics" market currently (Europe is catching up) and as such most forms of entertainment are offered cheaper. If you don't want to pay for the game that's fine and all, just don't go saying stuff that's baseless. Also, what's with Europeans complaining about the dollar/euro conversion? You aren't getting paid in dollars, you get paid in euros. I'd care if you got paid in dollars and had to convert into Euros but I don't think that's how it works here on Earth. I don't go to a store, see a $50 game and say to myself, "Geez, €36 is a steal, I better buy it!".


Erm, they was just quoting the post earlier on by FB_Lauri stating that the Euro price was the real price and the US were getting a discount due to the economic crisis.

The reason people complain about the Euro/Dollar comparison is that we are now buying things in an online medium which makes it very easy to compare prices. Go to a store and there's no easy way to compare what the price is in dollars, but online it's very easy. It's also complicated by the fact that some things you buy online have a price that is converted exactly, whereas other things have set prices for each country and some people pay more than others.

And by the way, not all of Europe has a higher price. The UK price is about the same as the US price, even a tiny bit cheaper once you take into account VAT.

Personally I understand the price of the PC version is probably down to the fact that the PC has a retail release and in order to get stores to stock your product you can't sell it for 1/2 the price online. The PS3 and 360 versions aren't getting retail releases so don't face this problem. I understand this is outside of developers hands but I'm getting a bit fed up of download copies costing more than retail copies (and yes, in the UK I can get a retail copied delivered for less than the Steam price) considering they don't have the same costs attached.

Araris
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Re: Trine PC Priced at $40?

Postby Araris » Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:07 am

So is the VAT added into the price or do you pay it separately? The whole reason Europe has high prices is supply and demand (not to mention the VAT). As the above poster said, the UK prices are similar, which doesn't surprise me considering the UK is also the largest market out of a single European country so they should get it for less.

I also wonder if FB_Lauri's post about that was his personal opinion or Frozenbyte as a whole. Because to cut the price due to the economic crisis in the US would be stupid considering Video Game Sales in the US have been impacted on a negligible scale by the recession, and since Europe is in one also why wouldn't Europe get a discount?
Last edited by Araris on Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

Thowky
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Re: Trine PC Priced at $40?

Postby Thowky » Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:11 am

Araris wrote:So is the VAT added into the price or do you pay it separately?


Any purchases in the UK like this include VAT of 15%. The Steam price is £20 ($33) but once you take VAT into account it's $30. I can order a retail copy for £18 ($29.80) including VAT and delivery.

Araris
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Re: Trine PC Priced at $40?

Postby Araris » Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:16 am

Thowky wrote:
Araris wrote:So is the VAT added into the price or do you pay it separately?


Any purchases in the UK like this include VAT of 15%. The Steam price is £20 ($33) but once you take VAT into account it's $30. I can order a retail copy for £18 ($29.80) including VAT and delivery.


Alright, so what's with the complaining? The UK gets it for the same price as the US. Larger markets shouldn't need to suffer in order to satisfy a smaller number of people in a smaller market.

SGR
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Re: Trine PC Priced at $40?

Postby SGR » Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:30 am

Araris wrote:
Thowky wrote:
Araris wrote:So is the VAT added into the price or do you pay it separately?


Any purchases in the UK like this include VAT of 15%. The Steam price is £20 ($33) but once you take VAT into account it's $30. I can order a retail copy for £18 ($29.80) including VAT and delivery.


Alright, so what's with the complaining? The UK gets it for the same price as the US. Larger markets shouldn't need to suffer in order to satisfy a smaller number of people in a smaller market.



So Germany/Austria is a small PC market?

Thowky
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Re: Trine PC Priced at $40?

Postby Thowky » Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:55 am

Araris wrote:Alright, so what's with the complaining? The UK gets it for the same price as the US. Larger markets shouldn't need to suffer in order to satisfy a smaller number of people in a smaller market.

My only complaint was about the cost of downloads in general compared to retail release which is just a personal gripe, nothing to do with Trine. Everything else I said was just pointing out that the reason people are complaining is because it's so easy to compare prices by country online and it's annoying to find out you are paying more.

Although, if you are going to argue about the size of the market I believe PC sales are actually higher in Europe than the US. Also, although the UK may be the biggest market for video games in Europe I think Germany (and maybe France) may sell more PC games.

AnaK
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Re: Trine PC Priced at $40?

Postby AnaK » Tue Jun 30, 2009 3:10 am

I overlol'd when i heard that the PSN/XBLA price will be ~20dollars/euros when on PC, it'll be 40dollars/euros.

I waited this game so much, i wanted this game to be a "BETTER LBP-like", with online, editors and stuffs... now i see a solo game @ 40euros for PC ( 20 for consoles. lolz seriously, it' cant be real.).

Disapointment of the year.

Crusader of Metal
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Re: Trine PC Priced at $40?

Postby Crusader of Metal » Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:07 am

We didn't start the Flame War!

Seriously people, it's just stupid arguing about things like that. I live in Brazil and that $30 is like $100 (or more) here and I gladly paid for it. $30 isn't outrageous, it's just that you were not expecting it.

I prefer paying $30 for an "indie" title that rocks, than paying $50 for an AAA that really hasn't a small part trine has to offer :) I had fun playing the demo with my friends and if I can get about 10 more hours on each play through like the one we had with the demo, it will be $30 really well spended!

* But I can't say I didn't want it to be cheaper :P

SirDrago
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Re: Trine PC Priced at $40?

Postby SirDrago » Tue Jun 30, 2009 8:50 am

Araris wrote:
SirDrago wrote:
Araris wrote:I have no doubt they make more money out of Europe, but until Europe is as large an electronic market as the US nothing will change. So because you have a stronger currency our prices should be raised? I'd think you'd be pushing more for Europe's prices should be lowered.


You are not informed. Game sale in Europe are higher then in the US. Nothing changes because most of the big game devs and publisher are still in the US.

And yes i want games to be cheaper. Its also not logical if i can buy games in the UK for 35 pounds ( about 41 Euros ) and in Germany i have to pay for the same game 60 Euros. Even though taxes are not that much different ( i think Germany has 4% higher taxes ).

Araris
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Re: Trine PC Priced at $40?

Postby Araris » Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:42 pm

SirDrago wrote:
You are not informed. Game sale in Europe are higher then in the US. Nothing changes because most of the big game devs and publisher are still in the US.

And yes i want games to be cheaper. Its also not logical if i can buy games in the UK for 35 pounds ( about 41 Euros ) and in Germany i have to pay for the same game 60 Euros. Even though taxes are not that much different ( i think Germany has 4% higher taxes ).


I'm not informed? As of now I'm operating under the following information, Europe is the 2nd largest market (just google it or if you don't want to http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/Video_game_industry), if they had better sales, they'd be the largest market. However due to conflicting reports and overall 2008 data on Europe being hard to verify the size of the NA markets and EU markets may have reached near equilibrium. Until 2008 reports or 2009 reports are verifiable I'm going to standby the status quo.

It is logical that you can buy a game cheaper in the UK, it's a larger market than Germany and as such game developers can afford to offer lower prices. In 2008 the UK accounted for $5.6billion and Germany $3.8billion, massive market size difference there. However the extent of the 19 Euro difference is still IMO to high. I'd think a more reasonable price would be 50 Euro.

pkt-zer0
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Re: Trine PC Priced at $40?

Postby pkt-zer0 » Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:22 pm

Huh, so PC players end up paying twice as much as console gamers. Great way to alienate your existing fanbase. Even if all this is thanks to the publisher, you still had some say in going with said publisher in the first place. This is why giving up freedom for funding is bad idea, and might not even be the lesser of two evils in this case. It's still kind of sad to see developers get screwed by publishers like this, though.

Syrijon
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Re: Trine PC Priced at $40?

Postby Syrijon » Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:35 pm

pkt-zer0 wrote:Huh, so PC players end up paying twice as much as console gamers. Great way to alienate your existing fanbase. Even if all this is thanks to the publisher, you still had some say in going with said publisher in the first place. This is why giving up freedom for funding is bad idea, and might not even be the lesser of two evils in this case. It's still kind of sad to see developers get screwed by publishers like this, though.

It's not twice as much. For example on Steam Trine costs $30, on PSN it's $20.
Surely, nobody wants to give up any freedom. But, think about it this way: Hadn't Frozenbyte signed up with a publisher, Trine likely just wouldn't exist right now. And apart from that, Publishers serve developers in more ways than just funding, hence the name. And from what was said by the developers recently, Nobilis are seemingly a good partner to have :)

Thowky
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Re: Trine PC Priced at $40?

Postby Thowky » Tue Jun 30, 2009 8:34 pm

Araris wrote:I'm not informed? As of now I'm operating under the following information, Europe is the 2nd largest market (just google it or if you don't want to http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/Video_game_industry), if they had better sales, they'd be the largest market. However due to conflicting reports and overall 2008 data on Europe being hard to verify the size of the NA markets and EU markets may have reached near equilibrium. Until 2008 reports or 2009 reports are verifiable I'm going to standby the status quo.

It is logical that you can buy a game cheaper in the UK, it's a larger market than Germany and as such game developers can afford to offer lower prices. In 2008 the UK accounted for $5.6billion and Germany $3.8billion, massive market size difference there. However the extent of the 19 Euro difference is still IMO to high. I'd think a more reasonable price would be 50 Euro.


The information you are looking at is for video games in general and this is about a PC game. Europe is a larger market for PC games than the US and although Germany may sell relatively few consoles it's a country known for PC gaming.

It's hard to find exact figures comparing this online but if you look at the report for germany for 2006 (http://www.mcvuk.com/blog/68/ANALYSIS-T ... rt-Germany) it suggests PC sales make up around 44% of the market. From looking at figures for the US I believe it is around 15-20% at most.

Thowky
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Re: Trine PC Priced at $40?

Postby Thowky » Tue Jun 30, 2009 8:37 pm

pkt-zer0 wrote:Huh, so PC players end up paying twice as much as console gamers. Great way to alienate your existing fanbase. Even if all this is thanks to the publisher, you still had some say in going with said publisher in the first place. This is why giving up freedom for funding is bad idea, and might not even be the lesser of two evils in this case. It's still kind of sad to see developers get screwed by publishers like this, though.


The price difference seems to be because the PC version is getting a retail release and therefore in order to get the game sold in shops they are less flexible with the online price. Look at any PC game that gets a retail release and you see the same thing. I'm not sure if the extra sales from retail will make up lost online sales but they must think so or they wouldn't have taken this route.

zilla
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Re: Trine PC Priced at $40?

Postby zilla » Wed Jul 01, 2009 1:19 am

I think what is worse than the price point is how there are two different price points depending on the system. I own a PS3 and a PC, but would rather own the game through steam. Honestly I'm going to pass on the game until there is a price cut on steam.

The one thing I don't get is your attitude of "Well all games come down in price lol". Well, in the digital distribution area, that seems to be the exception rather than the rule. The only thing I can think of that can compare to a price drop is steam two day sales, and it seems every other time Red Orchestra is on sale for that.

Also the reason why I want this game cheaper is because I want to play this game, not all the damn cheapy games I can buy with the money I save buying a different game.

The way I see pricing for this game is

40- hell no
30 - consider, but ultimately no
20- break down and buy it
10- No brainer

Tactical_Strike
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Re: Trine PC Priced at $40?

Postby Tactical_Strike » Wed Jul 01, 2009 6:16 am

Steam has it on sale of $29.99

Simplex
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Re: Trine PC Priced at $40?

Postby Simplex » Wed Jul 01, 2009 11:36 am

In Europe on Steam Trine costs 30€, which equals 42$. I do not think it is fair that Europeans are forced to pay 42% more for this game, especially since it is a game made by an European company. How is it even possible that European game costs 42% more in Europe than in US - why European gamers should be discriminated in such way?
There was something said about the fact that dollar is weak, poor Americans have a crisis (which they started themselves, remember?) and so they get a discount.
Great, I live in a country that does not use Euro and in the last 8 months my currency lost 40% of its value against Euro and Dollar. We have a financial crisis too, for which we are not responsible. Oh, and average salary (after tax) is less than 500€. Will you kindly offer discounts on Trine just like you did for those that are directly responsible for starting the financial crisis?

You could have been fair and evenly distribute the price in US and Europe, e.g. sell it 21% cheaper than 30€ in both us and eu.
So instead of selling it for 30€/42$ in Europe and 30$/21€ in US, you could have set a fair price in the middle for both regions - 25€/36$ - would that not be a much more honest and fair pricing for everybody?

EDIT: I also wanted to comment on this:
Euro zone people pay in euros, ie. they have to pay 30 euros, not 42 dollars.

This sentence makes as much sense as writing "They have to pay 30 euros, not 3000 eurocents."
Fact is that 30 euros EQUALS 42 dollars - so those who pay 30 euros, pay an amount that equals to 42 dollars and there's not much place for a debate here, unless exchange rates change.

I would understand this if you would get your salary/pension/allowance paid in USD and then you had to spend Euros for the game, but I'm sure that's not the case.

My country is not in Eurozone, so I do not get paid in Euros - is there a way I can pay for a game with another currency (and also pay less, because my currency is weak, I mentioned that it lost 40% of its value to the Euro in the last 8 months, so the game should be 40% cheaper for me, just like it is cheaper for Americans, right?)

What people in US needs to pay is our loss, not any European's loss. But we really hope the currency rates would go better.

The way I see it, it is a loss of every European that is supposed to pay 42% more for this game than Americans pay. Everyone who buys the game at 30€/42$ loses 12$/8,5€ price difference.
Also, this is a theory and a long shot, but perhaps you are factoring your US loss into higher price of the game in general? If you decided to sell the game cheaper in US, this loss of income has to be compensated somewhere else - and now we know why the game in Europe is 42% more expensive.

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FB_Lauri
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Re: Trine PC Priced at $40?

Postby FB_Lauri » Wed Jul 01, 2009 1:05 pm

Even I should already explained well enough (and Joel even better than me), here we go again ...

Trine PC has a world-wide retail publishing deal, which prices are set by our publisher. While Steam is set by us, it's following the guidelines of retail.

My personal guideline has not changed: if it's too expensive, don't buy it (until it's cheap enough, or your personal economy crisis has ended, or until you have waited long enough)

Whatever is the reason for not being able to buy it, I don't see why that would be our fault or what good you get by telling to us about it. But, trust me, I wish the pricing would be more equal, and then people who complain would be complaining about something else :wink:

Simplex
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Re: Trine PC Priced at $40?

Postby Simplex » Wed Jul 01, 2009 1:16 pm

I wrote here because you seem to agree with this pricing and justify it. If I read something like "we know that European price is unfair and we think it should be same as US but we cannot do anything since pricing is is up to publisher" then I would not write here. If you really think that it is honest and fair that Europeans have to pay 42% more for your game than Americans then we have to agree to disagree, with all due respect.

Also, I think that developers, creators of the game should have some say in the pricing of the game and should be able to tell publisher "we are European company, we do not want our fellow Europeans to pay 42% more for our game, that would not be fair". In a perfect world creator of the game should be able to enforce prices that he wants - of course I know we do not live in a perfect world

As for "can't afford it - don't buy it" - I want to buy it, but I do not want to pay 42% more than US. I can wait some time if Frozenbyte really plans on lowering the price of the game in future (e.g. 6-12 months after release).

You are right that people will always complain about something - but if the price of Trine was equal in US and UE at least no one would complain about that (I really don't see anyone sane complaining "your game is priced equally in US and EU, it's not fair, make it cheaper in US!").
No to mention, that less people would complain if the price difference was 10%, but it is a whopping 42%. And compared to PSN price its 102%. Yes, Trine on PC in europe it TWO TIMES more expensive than Trine on PS3 in US. Isn't that outrageous and unacceptable?

Do you know pricing details on Impulse? From what I know they offer prices in dollars for all customers so I am hoping that by some miracle the global Impulse price will be 30$ for everyone. That would warrant a buy. 30$ is still hefty price, but game look beautifully so it may as well be worth the price.
Last edited by Simplex on Wed Jul 01, 2009 3:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.

zilla
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Re: Trine PC Priced at $40?

Postby zilla » Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:35 pm

You know what? I won't buy it. You can call it complaining or bitching or whatever word you want, but it doesn't change the fact that your game has terrible price consistency across platforms and regions, and that digitally distributed games normally don't go down it price. (It happens, but more often than not it doesn't). And if your publishers that bind your hands and feet get pricing this messed up now, why should I expect things to improve from them.

You know I only came here to state my disatisfaction with the price point because I was interested in buying the game, not because I am some prick that gets off on complaining. Oh, and if I put a winking face at the end, I can pretend the comment was a joke. :wink:

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FB_Lauri
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Re: Trine PC Priced at $40?

Postby FB_Lauri » Wed Jul 01, 2009 4:25 pm

To summarize our suggestions to people who find the price too high or some other way wrong:

- Please look for best price for best platform (there IS variation, Steam being one of the best for PC I think), and if that's not yet up, wait some time for discounts to kick in
- In future, Frozenbyte tries it best to have more freedom to adjust the pricetag (as we partially agree with some of the complaints, even they are not always told in the nicest way :wink: )
- However, there will be no future if people now passing the launch price play pirated version and never keep their word of buying the game once it's cheap enough :?

Please don't open new threads about the price any more.


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